JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[Mohsin77]

They'll probably end up with around 150 Rafales eventually.

But given the slowness of their procurement, it's gonna take years.

By which point, all 50 Block IIIs should be operational and perhaps additional orders for J-10Cs placed.

Also, the Block I Thunders would be due for an MLU, and maybe that means bringing them up to Block III standard...?

 

[siegecrossbow]

They'll probably end up with around 150 Rafales eventually.

But given the slowness of their procurement, it's gonna take years.

By which point, all 50 Block IIIs should be operational and perhaps additional orders for J-10Cs placed.

Also, the Block I Thunders would be due for an MLU, and maybe that means bringing them up to Block III standard...?

They can’t change the plumbing. Only air cooled AESA is an option.

 

[Mohsin77]

They can’t change the plumbing. Only air cooled AESA is an option.

Vipers have the option of getting their structures rebuilt after X amount of hours in the 'life-extension' upgrade. I'm not sure if that's part of the regular Viper MLU program (I think its separated.) But since the Thunder is a Block-based program as well, and highly modular on purpose, I would think that this would have been a requirement built into the program from the start...

But I guess we will find out eventually when the MLU time comes.

 

[tphuang]

This article on thedrive has a good description of how old F-15s can get upgraded to AESA radar and go from air cooled to liquid cooled.

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I'd imagine a similar process is possible with JF-17. But keep in mind that F-15C/D can only be upgraded to the less capable APG-63v3. Only F-15E can be upgraded to APG-82. So depending on the internal layout of JF-17 block 1, there maybe limitations on AESA radar that it can host. Maybe it has to use air cooled or maybe it has lower liquid cooling ability which leads to less power. Either way, all the additional electronics from AESA radar set and associated EW gear will add a lot of weight. Is it still worth making the change? Definitely. Based on what we are seeing with USAF's upgrade program, AESA radar is where it's at.

Aside from additional power, you have a lot of "beam agility, beam shaping" advantages with AESA that makes it really hard to jam. Also, you can do some much additional things with your EW suite that's just not possible with mechanical system. Another thing that people don't talk about is communication. As they said in there "AESA radar technology is known to have a secondary communications ability". Fighter jets have to communicate with each other, other assets and with missiles. AESA radar allows fighter to also communicate on narrow band at different frequency. I mean all of this is pretty complicated stuff. A lot of it is hard to do without advanced processors. But with modern technology, it becomes easier to do even on a small aircraft like JF-17.

Is this kind of change currently needed? Probably not. Iaf is using some pretty old and electronically weak Russian aircraft. Based on what I read on Pakistani forums, they don't even encrypt their communication. But over the next 10 years, they will induct more rafale and upgrade their mkis. It will be more important for paf to have electronic warfare advantage in terms of communication, radar tracking and ew. After all, detecting enemy em and hiding one's own em will be more important than ever.

 

[siegecrossbow]

This article on thedrive has a good description of how old F-15s can get upgraded to AESA radar and go from air cooled to liquid cooled.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I'd imagine a similar process is possible with JF-17. But keep in mind that F-15C/D can only be upgraded to the less capable APG-63v3. Only F-15E can be upgraded to APG-82. So depending on the internal layout of JF-17 block 1, there maybe limitations on AESA radar that it can host. Maybe it has to use air cooled or maybe it has lower liquid cooling ability which leads to less power. Either way, all the additional electronics from AESA radar set and associated EW gear will add a lot of weight. Is it still worth making the change? Definitely. Based on what we are seeing with USAF's upgrade program, AESA radar is where it's at.

Aside from additional power, you have a lot of "beam agility, beam shaping" advantages with AESA that makes it really hard to jam. Also, you can do some much additional things with your EW suite that's just not possible with mechanical system. Another thing that people don't talk about is communication. As they said in there "AESA radar technology is known to have a secondary communications ability". Fighter jets have to communicate with each other, other assets and with missiles. AESA radar allows fighter to also communicate on narrow band at different frequency. I mean all of this is pretty complicated stuff. A lot of it is hard to do without advanced processors. But with modern technology, it becomes easier to do even on a small aircraft like JF-17.

Is this kind of change currently needed? Probably not. Iaf is using some pretty old and electronically weak Russian aircraft. Based on what I read on Pakistani forums, they don't even encrypt their communication. But over the next 10 years, they will induct more rafale and upgrade their mkis. It will be more important for paf to have electronic warfare advantage in terms of communication, radar tracking and ew. After all, detecting enemy em and hiding one's own em will be more important than ever.

F-15 is a larger airframe though. JF-17 is very compact as is.

 

[LCR34]

This article on thedrive has a good description of how old F-15s can get upgraded to AESA radar and go from air cooled to liquid cooled.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I'd imagine a similar process is possible with JF-17. But keep in mind that F-15C/D can only be upgraded to the less capable APG-63v3. Only F-15E can be upgraded to APG-82. So depending on the internal layout of JF-17 block 1, there maybe limitations on AESA radar that it can host. Maybe it has to use air cooled or maybe it has lower liquid cooling ability which leads to less power. Either way, all the additional electronics from AESA radar set and associated EW gear will add a lot of weight. Is it still worth making the change? Definitely. Based on what we are seeing with USAF's upgrade program, AESA radar is where it's at.

Aside from additional power, you have a lot of "beam agility, beam shaping" advantages with AESA that makes it really hard to jam. Also, you can do some much additional things with your EW suite that's just not possible with mechanical system. Another thing that people don't talk about is communication. As they said in there "AESA radar technology is known to have a secondary communications ability". Fighter jets have to communicate with each other, other assets and with missiles. AESA radar allows fighter to also communicate on narrow band at different frequency. I mean all of this is pretty complicated stuff. A lot of it is hard to do without advanced processors. But with modern technology, it becomes easier to do even on a small aircraft like JF-17.

Is this kind of change currently needed? Probably not. Iaf is using some pretty old and electronically weak Russian aircraft. Based on what I read on Pakistani forums, they don't even encrypt their communication. But over the next 10 years, they will induct more rafale and upgrade their mkis. It will be more important for paf to have electronic warfare advantage in terms of communication, radar tracking and ew. After all, detecting enemy em and hiding one's own em will be more important than ever.

Russo-Ukr war might have dashed all hopes of international Su-30 upgrades.

 

[Mohsin77]

F-15 is a larger airframe though. JF-17 is very compact as is.

True, but the Block III has the same dimensions as the Block I, it's the same airframe formfactor.

The biggest roadblock would probably be cost.

All this would be in response to a possible 150 Rafales anyway.

It may be better to just go with more J-10Cs.

 

[LCR34]

True, but the Block III has the same dimensions as the Block I, it's the same airframe formfactor.

The biggest roadblock would probably be cost.

All this would be in response to a possible 150 Rafales anyway.

It may be better to just go with more J-10Cs.

Also it's high time paf think of alternative engine. Given current situation.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Also it's high time paf think of alternative engine. Given current situation.

Worst comes to worst PAF will go with WS-13. China has invested heavily in it but aside from drones and FC-31/J-35 it hasn’t seen much use.

 

[gelgoog]

Russo-Ukr war might have dashed all hopes of international Su-30 upgrades.

The Indians will still likely get it. They have way too much Russian hardware to start caring about things like that.
Especially now that Chinese weapons are rapidly evolving and Pakistan is getting them.
Vietnam will also simply not care about US sanctions. Or Algeria.

Since the US claims the Russians cannot make military avionics without their oh so precious semiconductors, then they should not mind if Russia exhausts their chip stockpile with exports since they can't get more no? You will see how hollow this idea the Russians need US/EU/Japan/Taiwan electronics is.