JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

ArslanPAF

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How does erieye stack up to the new globaeye system?


Globaleye brings a significant improvement in range while maintaining the same power and size requirements. For this, SAAB switched to Gallium Nitride (GaN) based T/R modules, whereas legacy Erieye uses Gallium Arsenide (GaA) modules. GaNs can squeeze out upwards of 40% more raw EM power for the same power input vs GaA. Beyond this, the Globaleye probably has greater on station time and also most definitely would carry a superior EW/ECM suite alongside ELINT sensors. Another big talking point for it was its dedicated SSR, the Seaspray 7300E(i could be wrong though about the model- i am talking from memory). Allowing it to provide a more comprehensive view of the ground, could also be used for maritime patrol and also recce, through its SAR modes. However, you can achieve some form of ground view using the air search antenna too. For example, the Legacy Erieye can track jetski sized targets on the sea.
 

ArslanPAF

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Block 2 has data link too - data can be communicated between fighters, but more importantly providing multiple aspects of target tracking which is fed back to the ZDK-03 to build high fidelity image of what's happening on the battlefield. This capability will only improve when AESA radars are rolled out into Block 3. Data about the PL-15 might be limited (and for good reason), but from what we know they're seemingly on-par with AMRAAMs. As such from what we know about the Block 3, it's capabilities shouldn't be that far off from the Gripen, especially if you throw in helmet mounted display, improved engine and avionics, IRST.... etc.

The Erieye system featured on Swedish AEW&C only features 300 degree of radar coverage, whereas the ZDK-03's AESA radar covers full the 360 degrees. The Y-8, which the ZDK-03 is based on, seemingly has a performance and endurance (12 hours vs 6 hours) advantage over the Saab 340. More importantly the PAF are seemingly forging ahead with Sino-Pakistani developed weapons systems and technology, it would be impractical and expensive to reverse course to procure NATO-based weapons after following this path for almost two decades now... Especially given the current state of geopolitical affairs.

While yes, the Erieye does have blind spots, we don't know the exact capabilities of the ZDK-03. It could be less powerful overall, IDK, you may also lack some of the Erieye's other sensors, such as its ELINT/EW gear, which once again, we don't know whether it is present or not on the ZDK-03. A huge benefit of the Erieye is that it is able to be loaded with proprietary datalinks, allowing for the PAF to communicate with all of its assets, at once. You cant do this with the ZDK-03, or at least, we don't know if it can be done, however, there will be good reason for the Erieye's facing a lot more action than the ZDK-03s do. One thing to note, IDK the loiter times so I cant comment, however, you have used the SAAB 340, a smaller aircraft vs the PAF's Saab 2000s. Therefore, reducing the noted loiter time.
 

Mt1701d

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You may want to check out WolfpackIN's twitter. He said Block3 facing problems due to obstacle in AESA? its like theyre doing a better job than Indian Intelligence agency if it turns out to be true.
This is a bit off topic but Seriously man... Indian media regardless of ‘official’ or social (Twitter, YouTube and etc keyboard/video warriors) can’t be trusted, especially when they are criticising Pakistan and China, the amount of BS they come up with is incredible. They quote each other as source or simply say media reports or don’t provide source at all and then present their own BS as facts... If I remember correctly way back there was a report about Chinese casualties resulting from the fight between soldiers where India had 20 killed in Ladakh on timesnow or something, one of the ‘official’ Indian media, they quoted a report from breitbart, who in turn quoted another Indian ‘official’ media, who didn’t provide any source, they were literally quoting their own BS and labelling it as legit because a western media reported it... so any ‘media report’ mentioned in any news, especially from Indian media when not criticising their own government basically means whatever the news they are presenting is, is basically worthless or BS and not even worth the bits they are stored on.
 

ArslanPAF

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The Gripen E has its own datalink which allows different aircraft to communicate target data. Plus the AESA radar can swivel. So you can spot a target that's on your side basically. It can also fire the Meteor. Plus the Swedes do have AEW&C platforms. They might not be as advanced as the Chinese ones but they are able to interact with the Gripen.
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For a country with 10 million people the Swedes do an impressive job at making defense systems. They have been doing jet fighters since the begining of the jet age. Lots of design experience and unique requirements. Sure they need to import a lot of systems but it's complicated not to do that with such a limited production base.

You have to remember the original program name for the Grippen was JAS-39 which basically means joint attack and reconnaissance system 39. So the whole program was conceived as a system architecture of which the airplane is just a part of it. It also includes weapons, ground control stations, airborne radars, etc.


JF-17 makes use of the Pakistani link 17, it can also share whatever via a common platform, i.e the Erieye.

Swivelling AESA= Smaller antenna. Also, the KLJ-7A comes in a gimbal-mounted flavour, so it can swivel and there is also a variant with cheek arrays. You are vastly overestimating the FOV the gimbal adds, it is important, however, it's not as important as you are making it out to be. AESA's can also make use of their beam steering ability to be able to track targets off to their sides. There is a very good reason why most of the worlds fighters don't use Gimballed AESA's, its not worth the maintenance nightmare and reduced Antenna. It also probably would add complexity to the cooling setup also.

Meteor is a missile lagging pretty hard, it doesn't get the same updates as the AMRAAM and also does not make use of a modern LPI AESA as the PL-15 does. This is not to discount the Meteor, however, many experts would put it on par, if not, below the 120D, simply because of the underinvestment in it and its capabilities.

The JF-17s can also interact with AWACS.
 

ArslanPAF

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If such a deal goes through, I assume the aircraft will be made in Pakistan and not China? I imagine China has their hands full scaling up production (量产) of the aircraft that they need for themselves.

No. PAC has allocated 12 units of spare capacity to fulfil block 3 export orders per year. CAC does not have a line.
 

Mohsin77

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Off-boresight shots are a Fox 2 thing. This is for Fox 3s, and you don't launch Fox 3s 'off boresight' in BVR, they don't have the energy.

This lateral AESA will help you 'crank' away from the bandit, while keeping him on your radar, post-launch, to support the missile until it goes pitbull. You also need to crank defensively, before turning in to launch. Lateral AESA arrays would also help with your SA, but SA is mostly dependent on datalink to your AWACS these days... It probably has other advantages as well, maybe for ECM etc. I don't know why the PAF would not pick this version of the KLJ-7A if it can be integrated... maybe it has greater power requirements or something... Hopefully the rumor that we went with the steered version is incorrect.
 

LCR34

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Off-boresight shots are a Fox 2 thing. This is for Fox 3s, and you don't launch Fox 3s 'off boresight' in BVR, they don't have the energy.

This lateral AESA will help you 'crank' away from the bandit, while keeping him on your radar, post-launch, to support the missile until it goes pitbull. You also need to crank defensively, before turning in to launch. Lateral AESA arrays would also help with your SA, but SA is mostly dependent on datalink to your AWACS these days... It probably has other advantages as well, maybe for ECM etc. I don't know why the PAF would not pick this version of the KLJ-7A if it can be integrated... maybe it has greater power requirements or something... Hopefully the rumor that we went with the steered version is incorrect.
No words on KLJ-7A about its spec etc? The more i look at Gripen E the more i like it. I even hope my country buys it. Gripen E is marketed to be the 1st with GaN AESA etc.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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Swivelling AESA= Smaller antenna. Also, the KLJ-7A comes in a gimbal-mounted flavour, so it can swivel and there is also a variant with cheek arrays. You are vastly overestimating the FOV the gimbal adds, it is important, however, it's not as important as you are making it out to be. AESA's can also make use of their beam steering ability to be able to track targets off to their sides. There is a very good reason why most of the worlds fighters don't use Gimballed AESA's, its not worth the maintenance nightmare and reduced Antenna. It also probably would add complexity to the cooling setup also.

Meteor is a missile lagging pretty hard, it doesn't get the same updates as the AMRAAM and also does not make use of a modern LPI AESA as the PL-15 does. This is not to discount the Meteor, however, many experts would put it on par, if not, below the 120D, simply because of the underinvestment in it and its capabilities.
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It does make a difference to have the gimbal. But sure, having side mounted radars also helps.
 
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