JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[Miragedriver]

Argentina is broke... they do not have any money for this sort of investment.

An who is going to lend to them? How will they afford the maintenance?

As Contra mentioned bartering is an option. However there are 27 billion in gold reserves and the government needs to upgrade the air force. “Supposedly” they were willing to work on an agreement to purchase 24 JAS_39 for Brazil.

As mentioned previously if a portion of those funds are utilized to purchase a license agreement, or knock down components from China for assembly only. The cost of paying the FMA workers to assemble the aircraft is in pesos and the government can print the required about to compensate the FMA employees.

That was how the IA-58s were made and now the IA-63s. Engines and certain imported goods for the aircraft are paid cash (or trade) and the workers are paid in “printed” pesos

 

[thunderchief]

Would Argentina want plane with Russian engine ? It seems unlikely, but @Miragedriver could know better .

 

[Miragedriver]

Would Argentina want plane with Russian engine ? It seems unlikely, but @Miragedriver could know better .

Personally, and based on conversations with Air force pilots, they prefer to be flying western aircraft. However, since 4th and most 3rd generation aircraft have been made unavailable to the FAA, then the only alternative is Russian or Chinese.

 

[Dolcevita]

Would Argentina want plane with Russian engine ? It seems unlikely, but @Miragedriver could know better .

Argentina had purchase Mi-17 and Russia-Argentina relationship are good to excellent. So i do not see why they would have a problem with Russian engine.

 

[Miragedriver]

Argentina had purchase Mi-17 and Russia-Argentina relationship are good to excellent. So i do not see why they would have a problem with Russian engine.

Agreed! The RD-33 is more reliable than the Atar-9 engine.

 

[Dizasta1]

Agreed! The RD-33 is more reliable than the Atar-9 engine.

Just a bit off topic here ..... I can understand the rationale behind choosing a Russian fighter (although it would've been great had they picked JF-17 Thunders). But why Su-24 Fencer? Or better yet, why only Su-24 Fencers and not another long-range Russia fighter like the Su-35 or MiG-31BM?

From what I understand, Argentina has a 3000 mile long coastline. If anything, it would require a long-range, Air-Superiority fighter. The Fencers are attack aircraft and weren't meant for Air-Superiority.

So my question to you would be ........ In your opinion, do you think Argentina would consider incorporating an Air-Superiority requirement in their modernization plan?

Also ....... on a side note ....... it would be interesting, if ever Argentina fields an aircraft carrier. I would anxious to see whether CAC-PAC would consider designing a naval-variant of the JF-17 Thunder!! Now that would really get the brits jumping in their seats, won't it!

 

[Scratch]

I believe integrating multiple new systems into the AF would overstretch Argentina's capabilities, financially and logistically. Su-35 or MiG-31 would be especially expensive to operate, I would think. Instead of having small numbers of several high-end jets, the resources would be better spend operating a sinbgle, prudent "good enough" solution for some time, until a good final deal can be found. Fencers should have a usefull anti-ship capability with decent range, which is ok to defend a long costline. And in the air, I think an interceptor capability will also do for now. It doesn't need to be full-up airsuperiority. And Fencers, with a proper radar and maybe AA-10 /-11 integrated will do just fine.

For JF-17s to be a proper option, I would imagine Argentina requireing an air-refuling capability as well. Maybe use the A-4s for that? Or have the Thunders stationed at various bases along the country.

 

[thunderchief]

Personally, and based on conversations with Air force pilots, they prefer to be flying western aircraft. However, since 4th and most 3rd generation aircraft have been made unavailable to the FAA, then the only alternative is Russian or Chinese.

I'm not talking about pilots, I'm talking about those who hold the purse strings , since you said yourself that Argentinian government is lefty-liberal and those tend to shun Russians lately . Again, I'm not an expert on Argentinian politics, that is why I'm asking you .

Argentina had purchase Mi-17 and Russia-Argentina relationship are good to excellent. So i do not see why they would have a problem with Russian engine.

Argentina bought 2 Mi-171 and these are more utility then combat helicopters. Most of the Argentinian equipment is Western, it would be "cultural shock" for them to start buying (and depending for parts ) from China, Russia and maybe even Pakistan .

 

[Miragedriver]

Just a bit off topic here ..... I can understand the rationale behind choosing a Russian fighter (although it would've been great had they picked JF-17 Thunders). But why Su-24 Fencer? Or better yet, why only Su-24 Fencers and not another long-range Russia fighter like the Su-35 or MiG-31BM?

From what I understand, Argentina has a 3000 mile long coastline. If anything, it would require a long-range, Air-Superiority fighter. The Fencers are attack aircraft and weren't meant for Air-Superiority.

So my question to you would be ........ In your opinion, do you think Argentina would consider incorporating an Air-Superiority requirement in their modernization plan?

Also ....... on a side note ....... it would be interesting, if ever Argentina fields an aircraft carrier. I would anxious to see whether CAC-PAC would consider designing a naval-variant of the JF-17 Thunder!! Now that would really get the brits jumping in their seats, won't it!

So now the new item on the list is the Su-24 Strike aircraft. Mmmmm, well there are only 12 on the table. They cannot really be considered a fighter per say. Not a good acquisition, but I would have preferred this as a replacement for the Super Etendards as a Naval Strike Platform. If I had by preference I would have picked JH-7B for the Super Etendard replacements over the Su-24.

Personally I don’t see this deal materializing either. If the government was really serious about purchasing 24 JAS-39 from Brazil for 2.9 billion. They should just invest that money in either assemble or manufacture the FC-1/JF-17. This aircraft could not only replace the aging Mirage aircraft, but with a long enough production run could replace the aging A-4AR and reduce the logistics and maintenance program of the FAA with the use of the RD-33 engine.

2.9 billion will by a lot of FC-1/JF-17 and modern ASM, AAM and other munitions.


Back to bottling my Grenache

 

[Miragedriver]

I believe integrating multiple new systems into the AF would overstretch Argentina's capabilities, financially and logistically. Su-35 or MiG-31 would be especially expensive to operate, I would think. Instead of having small numbers of several high-end jets, the resources would be better spend operating a sinbgle, prudent "good enough" solution for some time, until a good final deal can be found. Fencers should have a usefull anti-ship capability with decent range, which is ok to defend a long costline. And in the air, I think an interceptor capability will also do for now. It doesn't need to be full-up airsuperiority. And Fencers, with a proper radar and maybe AA-10 /-11 integrated will do just fine.

For JF-17s to be a proper option, I would imagine Argentina requireing an air-refuling capability as well. Maybe use the A-4s for that? Or have the Thunders stationed at various bases along the country.

Well Argentina is capable of having a large air force. They did during the late 1970s and early 1980s. Currently the percentage of GDP spending on the military is around 0.7%, were Chile is spending 2.5% and Brazil 3.2%. Therefore, if the government really wanted to rebuild the military in general, and specifically the Air Force, they could. With that said. The single engine JF-17/FC-1 would be an excellent aircraft for the FAA. It is well-suited to Argentina’s operational requirements when considering acquisition and operating costs, as well as an increasing range of advanced weaponry.

At the present time Argentina’s Air Force needs urgent replacements and FC-1/JF-17 very much fits the bill. It is more or less embargo free since it has almost zero parts involved from Western nations/NATO member states.

Also if the government was really considering purchasing 24 JAS-39 (Brazil made) for $US2.9 billion. Imagine how many JF-17s, weapons and support equipment that could purchase.

Argentina has a growing defense relationship with China that has seen it start to co-produce the Changhe Z-11, the CZ-11 Pampero, which is based on the Eurocopter A350 Ecureuil (Squirrel).

The CZ-11 program is part of Argentina’s bid to build up its aviation industry, therefore the offer of local production of the FC-1/JF-17 could still happen.



Back to bottling my Grenache