JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[asif iqbal]

Having a huge fleet of JF-17 is a big deterrence in itself as long as India know we have 150-250 JF-17 all which can carry Ra'ad LACM which are nuclear capable no one in the right mind would want to pick a fight

Having a massive fleet of JF-17 with nuclear deterrence will ensure the militray balance in the region, the most important thing is the militray balance if that starts to shift in any direction we are in trouble as long as the balance is there there will be no war

Produce 5 block of 50 units to give 250 aircraft so that they can carry all the weapons so do the wiring and avionics so all the fleet has the same capability

This is what the Kamra facility is doing building and expanading the weapons profile of the JF-17 with the reserved test units

 

[nabil_05]

AFM feb 14 issue article with Air Commodore Mahmood is a jem !

* blk 1 has KLJ-7V2 radar already, impressive performance.

* KG-300G is a powerful jammer

* E-Scan radar being developed for further batches, didnt say if it was blk 2 included though

 

[thunderchief]

Not to get OT but the only real possiblity of PAF ever going into combat would be with the IAF so it'll depend on what type they go up against. If Tejas I'm pretty sure the JF-17 can hold their own, MiG 29 not sure.. Rafales then probably not. Of course this is assuming equal parity in other aspects which in reality would not be the case since not all pilots are made equal and we're not even taking into consideration C4ISR, AWACS, ground support and the weapons type etc.

PAF is well aware of JF-17 shortcomings , so in hypothetical conflict with India they don't intend to go head-to-head against superior numbers and superior warplanes . Instead , they want to fight smartly .

First of all , any conflict with India will be short and territorially limited . This is because both countries are armed with nuclear weapons and things could quickly escalate . You could expect huge international pressure to end war quickly . Second , current Indian doctrine envisage their air superiority near front line, and deep strikes against Pakistani strategic targets .

In a current situation , PAF cannot realistically stop IAF from achieving air superiority in forward engagement zone (we saw that in Kargil conflict ) but they intend to counter deep strikes by networking their fighters with AWACS and ground radars . JF-17s would not really just on their own sensors - they will be vectored towards Indian planes by ground and
AWACS controllers to achieve surprise shoot and to depart quickly .

Also , as PAF cannot reasonably hope to enter deep into Indian territory , they would rely on stand-off weapons which could be launched from relative safety in order to strike back at India . JF-17 would be a part of that strategy , as we can see that PAF plans to arm them with cruise missiles and glide bombs .

 

[Dizasta1]

Without a domestic engine the prospect for export of the JF-17 and the J-10 is poor. Any re-exporting of the RD-93 or the AL-31 engines will need the permission of the Russians.

But its nice to see that the JF-17 project is moving forward. Because it has been so quiet for so long around the JF-17 that i thought the project was abandoned!

Can Pakistan refurbish and maintain the RD-93's themselves or do they need to send those engines back to China or Russia ?

Not to get OT but the only real possiblity of PAF ever going into combat would be with the IAF so it'll depend on what type they go up against. If Tejas I'm pretty sure the JF-17 can hold their own, MiG 29 not sure.. Rafales then probably not. Of course this is assuming equal parity in other aspects which in reality would not be the case since not all pilots are made equal and we're not even taking into consideration C4ISR, AWACS, ground support and the weapons type etc.

You forget the approach of how to fight. On its own, no fighter (with the exception of F-22, J-20 & T-50), can possibly achieve Air-Dominance on its own. There are huge resources poured into an Air Force for achieving/maintaining Air-Superiority over its own air-space. AEWs, IFRs, ELINTs, EWAs all perform their roles alongside fighter aircraft in order to achieve control and dominance of an air-space. So putting JF-17s in a scenario where it goes head-to-head against Rafales, Fulcrums & Flankers, is not entirely an accurate comparison.

Pakistan Air Force's primary concerns are to induct combat aircraft which are close enough in terms of capability of any 4Gen fighter and those too in large numbers to replace older aircraft. So when they go up to defend their air space, it'd be along with ZDK-03s, DA-20s and IL-76

 

[Munir]

There are some rumors about JF17-3 with ej200 engines for KSA. The EJ200 is somehow mentioned in the AFM february edition. So there is something...

 

[Lion]

There are some rumors about JF17-3 with ej200 engines for KSA. The EJ200 is somehow mentioned in the AFM february edition. So there is something...

Impossible. Any engine swap on JF-17 all needs to be done in Chengdu China which is impossible for BAE to accept their top of end EJ-200 engine to be sent to China.

Pakistan do not have the ability to do the engine swap. Extensive test and some redesign of the fuselage need to be carry out to ensure new engine can fit well with the JF-17. Only China CAC is well suit for such task.

 

[Dizasta1]

Impossible. Any engine swap on JF-17 all needs to be done in Chengdu China which is impossible for BAE to accept their top of end EJ-200 engine to be sent to China.

Pakistan do not have the ability to do the engine swap. Extensive test and some redesign of the fuselage need to be carry out to ensure new engine can fit well with the JF-17. Only China CAC is well suit for such task.

My friend, anything is possible, provided you throw tons of money at it! ......... And the Saudis have tons of money!!!!!

With corruption allegations that have emerged in the past, pertaining to the Eurofighter and the Saudis. I am pretty sure, that for the right amount of money, BAe would relent to the Saudi demands.

On the other hand, the Eurofighter consortium can stick to their guns and refuse to budge on EJ-200s. It's far more likely that Saudis would get what they want, unless there is some serious lobbying from the israelis!

As for JF-17 Thunders being modified and/or EJ-200s being modified to accomodate either/or. There is no reason to think why not.

Like I said, for the right amount of money, i'm pretty sure that neither the Europeans, nor the Chinese would have any issues catering to Saudi requirements. China wouldn't, since it's the JF-17 Thunder was developed primarily with export/sales in mind.

 

[Lion]

My friend, anything is possible, provided you throw tons of money at it! ......... And the Saudis have tons of money!!!!!

This involves politic and sensitive technology which money proves impossible to solve. And I think saudi are better off throwing money at China so that WS-13 engine project can speed up.

 

[Munir]

This involves politic and sensitive technology which money proves impossible to solve. And I think saudi are better off throwing money at China so that WS-13 engine project can speed up.

Saudi have ef2000... We know the plane (pilots/engineers)...

ws13 is heavier, bigger and less thrust...

 

[plawolf]

With Pakistan's experience with western and American hardware, I would think that the PAF top brass would appreciate that raw performance figures and costs are not the only, or even primary, consideration.

Admittedly the PAF would not have much confidence that the RD93s the JF17 currently uses are sanction proof, but I would think that if a Chinese engine with similar performance as the RD93 was ready and available, that the PAF would consider it preferable to EJ2000s even with worse performance.

As for EJ2000 integration on the JF17, well I don't think that is as far fetched as one may think at first glance. In terms of pure mechanics and layout, I do not think the EJ2000 really holds any secrets the Chinese or Russians do not already know. What really seperates engine performance between western and eastern engines are currently materials sciences, and especially the manufacturing of single crystal turbine blades. That is not something any amount of studying of physical examples of ready made turbine blades can solve. Similarly, no amount of analysis of the EJ2000 performance is likely to yield any tactically or strategically useful intel in countering fighters equipped with EJ2000s (although that is dependent on the assumption that the EJ2000 does not have any major inherent technical flaws that would significantly compromise its performance under certain conditions, but I think that is a safe assumption to make).

As such, the risks associated with exporting EJ2000s to China for integration into JF17s is pretty low.