JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[taimikhan]

RD-93 vs. GE F-414,which is better?

Without any doubt, GE-414, it already has a 98kN thrust, and due to the engine thrust being major factor, the Grippen NG would be able to take on 6,000KG of weapons load on its external hard points.

Plus, Western engines are more reliable, quality wise better and maintenance wise also better.

 

[plawolf]

The Pakistanis order for 42 more aircraft was for a whooping $800million, or roughly $19 million an aircraft (plus supplies, support equipment, etc..). It just seems that for 5 or 8 million more you could purchase a J-10, which is a much more capable aircraft and has more room to grow.

You should make sure you are not comparing apples to oranges with such a simplistic analysis on contract price.

You need to look at the fine print of the $800m contract to see what is also included, as it is quite common for weapons, logistics, training etc to be sold as a complete package with the planes. All those extras don't come cheap.

What more, it would be silly to assume that Pakistan will get J10s at the same price as the PLAAF. Export planes are always more expansive than what the domestic air force pays, and its only fair since the PLAAF would have already pumped a huge amount of funds into the development of the J10, which is the overhead. The $25m is just what it costs to make a J10, for China to offer the J10 at $25m will be like selling it at below cost, which is never going to happen.

So if you factor out the extras in the JF17 contract and also mark up the J10 price to reflect realistic export prices and the price difference between the two for Pakistan would be quite considerable.

OTOH, since the PLAAF put no money into the development of the JF17, if they wanted to buy the type, then they would also need to pay a little extra then Pakistan (who did chip in with the development costs). So the price difference will be much smaller between the types for the PLAAF, which may be a big factor in their decision to opt for J10s.

 

[A.Man]

What Did CCTV Tell You?

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[Lion]

What Did CCTV Tell You?

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-FC-1 carry out many real time aerial battle with F-16A by PAF and repeatly defeated F-16A. Especially in dogfight area.

-FC-1 did not fly on Farnborough Airshow becos of objection from Chinese side as they want FC-1 to make its flight demonstration debut in Zuhai 2010 Airshow.

-FC-1 will not be under engine blackmail from Russia as WS-13 has successfully developed and already equip and tested on FC-1.

 

[zoom]

-FC-1 carry out many real time aerial battle with F-16A by PAF and repeatly defeated F-16A. Especially in dogfight area.

Did it mention what block of F-16A it was against.Pakistan had lots of block-15 and earlier versions but Taiwan has block 20 with improved computer systems and more , so i'm curious to learn if the JF-17/FC-1 would come unstuck at this point.

 

[plawolf]

Did you miss the emphasis on the JF17 winning in dogfights?

The earliest F16s are also the most agile. Later blocks gained better radars and multirole capabilities, but that came at the cost of maneuverability as the planes got heavier.

Also, since the PLA does not operate any FC1/JF17s, how they perform against RoCAF F16s is irrelevant.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Did you miss the emphasis on the JF17 winning in dogfights?

The earliest F16s are also the most agile. Later blocks gained better radars and multirole capabilities, but that came at the cost of maneuverability as the planes got heavier.

Also, since the PLA does not operate any FC1/JF17s, how they perform against RoCAF F16s is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that potential costumers will be pleased to get a plane capable of outperforming the agile F-16 for only 15 million dollars! Wonder if JF-17 will become the new MIG-21 - cheap, popular, simple, but effective.

 

[tphuang]

-FC-1 carry out many real time aerial battle with F-16A by PAF and repeatly defeated F-16A. Especially in dogfight area.

Did it mention what block of F-16A it was against.Pakistan had lots of block-15 and earlier versions but Taiwan has block 20 with improved computer systems and more , so i'm curious to learn if the JF-17/FC-1 would come unstuck at this point.

Well, pakistan only the early F-16s, so it would have to be those. And I don't think they are referring to the ones that had MLU. As for F-16a being the block with best maneuverability, that's probably true, but that doesn't necessarily mean JF-17 has better maneuverability. We don't know the ROE of these combats and I'm sure the electronics on jf-17 is a major contributing factor too.

So we can probably say that JF-17 has better flight performance than what a lot of people thought, but let's not overread too much.

 

[Adios Amigo]

Well, pakistan only the early F-16s, so it would have to be those. And I don't think they are referring to the ones that had MLU. As for F-16a being the block with best maneuverability, that's probably true, but that doesn't necessarily mean JF-17 has better maneuverability. We don't know the ROE of these combats and I'm sure the electronics on jf-17 is a major contributing factor too.

So we can probably say that JF-17 has better flight performance than what a lot of people thought, but let's not overread too much.

Hi,

Pakistan has a fleet of 45 f-16A/B Block 15. Not all of them are in the original configuration,since some of them are OCUs which were obtained from the U.S lately, and are upgraded to block 40 standards. Currently the same are participating the Red Flag. Apart from that Pakistan also started receiving the latest Block 52+, four of which were received in the month of July. No MLUed block 15 has been received so far.

So keeping the MLUs and Block 52+ aside, there is a fair chance that JF-17s have been used and measured against the OCUs.

Another interesting aspect would be the difference in performance of JFTs against the Block 52+.

Adios!

 

[rhino123]

Actually another factors that many have forgotten or ignored is the pilots that flew these aircraft. There is nothing on these pilots... I believe that like China or many other countries, the pilots in Pakistan are also classified into different classes.

Which roughly means that those flying the JF-17 (being newer fighters) might be say Class A (or equivalent) pilots while those in the older F-16s might be Class B.

It would be interesting if those pilots in the JF-17 actually piloted the F-16 and test against the JF-17 fighters piloted by the those pilots that piloted the F-16s and if the result is still the same, then we can say that the JF-17 is a better plane than older F-16.