JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[Pointblank]

Point Blank, what is your point? JF17 is a lightweight fighter and thus what would you expect it to carry if not a light fighter radar. I would think that a good light fighter radar from China would reflect positively upon Chinese capabilities. Wait for the AESA fighter radar from China....

I can compare it to the Swedish Gripen which is in the same class as the JF-17, which has a more advanced radar that is also more capable. And looking at it from a regional point of view, with Pakistan's main rival, India planning a major upgrade in capabilities to the point where their lowest end fighter will be on par with Pakistan's new F-16 fleet, there will be a major disparity in capabilities.

 

[MastanKhan]

Well, at least as good as a late 1980's, mid-1990's radar design; the Thales RC400 was designed for upgrading older combat types and advanced trainers, like the Mirage F1. Likewise, the comparable Galileo Grifo S7 was designed for the the MiG-21. Practically every radar mentioned for fitting onto the JF-17 by Pakistan is a light fighter radar or an advanced trainer radar system, with by far the most advanced is the Selex Vixen 500E.

Hi,

It does not make any difference as to what the age of the brand name is---the innards and functional parts are all brand spanking new with the latest affordable technology---.

You posting this information like a smart alec who found some real clues---please use common sense---currently manufactured radar would have current and upto date technology.

With any common sense leftover you would have realized that by now in the year 2010---there would be no new parts available to manufacture the 80's / 90's radar---.

Wow---what an effort you have put into your post sir---keep up the good work---.

 

[Londo Molari]

I can compare it to the Swedish Gripen which is in the same class as the JF-17, which has a more advanced radar that is also more capable.

source?

And looking at it from a regional point of view, with Pakistan's main rival, India planning a major upgrade in capabilities to the point where their lowest end fighter will be on par with Pakistan's new F-16 fleet, there will be a major disparity in capabilities.

"planning a major upgrade"? If you talk about planning, Pakistan is also planning many ambitious upgrades. Lets stick to reality.

 

[Pointblank]

Hi,

It does not make any difference as to what the age of the brand name is---the innards and functional parts are all brand spanking new with the latest affordable technology---.

You posting this information like a smart alec who found some real clues---please use common sense---currently manufactured radar would have current and upto date technology.

With any common sense leftover you would have realized that by now in the year 2010---there would be no new parts available to manufacture the 80's / 90's radar---.

Wow---what an effort you have put into your post sir---keep up the good work---.

The design is still late 1980's, mid 1990's esque. The capabilities present in the Chinese radar only matches the capabilities of radars designed during that time frame. And it is not just Western radars, I would also compare it to Russian systems as well.

source?

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"planning a major upgrade"? If you talk about planning, Pakistan is also planning many ambitious upgrades. Lets stick to reality.

I really should have said 'in the middle' as the Indians are right in the middle of their MRCA competition, which will pick from either the Gripen NG, Rafale, F-16IN, F/A-18E/F, Eurofighter or MiG-35. Qualitatively, once the MiG-21's are phased out, and the MRCA selection is made, the backbone of the Indian Air Force's fighter units will primarily consist of Su-30MKI's, Mirage 2000's, the MRCA, and the HAL Tejas, who's performance is similar to the early upgraded F-16's operated by Pakistan. And the upgrades and modernization program by Pakistan is far more limited than what the Indians are doing.

That's why I say, comparatively, the JF-17's avionics performance from what is known is comparable to systems designed in the late 1980's to mid 1990's, albeit on the lower end of the scale. While the Chinese have made significant advancements in these fields, we have to understand that such advancements are limited, and the Chinese are still a decade behind in this field.

 

[Lion]

The design is still late 1980's, mid 1990's esque. The capabilities present in the Chinese radar only matches the capabilities of radars designed during that time frame. And it is not just Western radars, I would also compare it to Russian systems as well.

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It is funny you are trying to use an export set trying to gauge the radar standard of best of what PLAAF have? Do you know what is export set?

Qualitatively, once the MiG-21's are phased out, and the MRCA selection is made, the backbone of the Indian Air Force's fighter units will primarily consist of Su-30MKI's, Mirage 2000's, the MRCA, and the HAL Tejas, who's performance is similar to the early upgraded F-16's operated by Pakistan. And the upgrades and modernization program by Pakistan is far more limited than what the Indians are doing.

By the time it really happens, AESA radar and semi-stealth block 2 version of JF-17 already inducted. PAF probably already surpassed the technology of IAF. I am not trying to be bias, lets look at IAF procument and their past record. Deadline keep on extending. LCA suppose to be inducted already in 2006 becomes 2012. And they are chances it may extended again. MRCA selection too keep on extending.. You are probably too optimistic about IAF modernisation. If by paper, India will surpassed USA as world number one power by now. But is it? Let's be realistic , guys!

 

[mkhan]

From what i can see, more than 90% of the existing US aircraft were designed in the 80's and 90's. Don't see people complaining about that.

It does not matter when something was designed. The important thing is how it would stack up against existing systems of the same class. India's Sukhoi's and so on are much bigger aircraft and can therefore carry bigger and better radars. If anything, the Radar on JF-17 should be compared to the one on LCA.

 

[challenge]

KLJ-7 x band fire control radar has different radar modes, among them was Situaltional Awarness Mode (SAM) ,can anyone bright me up about this radar mode. what is SAM?
one radar mode is absent (from wikipedia)and that is JEM (Jet Engine Modulation )JEM provide the radar with much greater target discrimination specially trying to track very long range target.also provide alternative way of identifying friend or foe.

 

[Lion]

From what i can see, more than 90% of the existing US aircraft were designed in the 80's and 90's. Don't see people complaining about that.

It does not matter when something was designed. The important thing is how it would stack up against existing systems of the same class. India's Sukhoi's and so on are much bigger aircraft and can therefore carry bigger and better radars. If anything, the Radar on JF-17 should be compared to the one on LCA.

Precisely, and the fact JF-17 is meant to be a cost effective aircraft and design for export. Its no point putting on a USD20 million AESA and jerk up the whole unit price to more than USD 30 million.

In the end, it will end up with no customer as more countries targeted are those with many Mig-21 and F-5EII who badly need modern cost effective warplanes to replace them.

Just look at Thailand who decided to procure Gripen. Now they end up with less than a squadron of Gripen to make with when 2008 economic crisis came again. Gripen is simply too expensive for Thailand to aquire. They shall have go for JF-17.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Precisely, and the fact JF-17 is meant to be a cost effective aircraft and design for export. Its no point putting on a USD20 million AESA and jerk up the whole unit price to more than USD 30 million.

In the end, it will end up with no customer as more countries targeted are those with many Mig-21 and F-5EII who badly need modern cost effective warplanes to replace them.

Just look at Thailand who decided to procure Gripen. Now they end up with less than a squadron of Gripen to make with when 2008 economic crisis came again. Gripen is simply too expensive for Thailand to aquire. They shall have go for JF-17.

Thailand is a possible export partner but I don't think I've ever read about it being solicited or soliciting for the FC-1, probably because the Thai economy is in incredibly bad shape, not only the underlying problems left over from 2008 but the continued political uncertainty is driving investors and companies away. Thailand can't even really afford to operate the Chakri Naruebet anymore, it operates one day out of every month and hardly ever moves from Sattahip naval base. Hey maybe the PLAN could buy it off them! :roll:

As for the FC-1/JF-17's radar, I think what is most interesting is its modularity, it is a very resiliently designed aircraft and can be tailor made to suit what ever the customer is looking for. Perhaps the country needs the most cost effective aircraft they can get, then the FC-1 can be modified to meet those needs. Maybe another country needs the best performance it can get out of the aircraft, then an AESA radar can be installed and whatever mission specific equipment and loadout is required. The main strength of this aircraft is that it can configured to whatever the customer needs, especially to the point where the price counts the most. As kursed pointed out, in terms of performance the basic FC-1 seems to be able to outperform 2nd hand F-16A/Bs and MiG-29SMTs. While it cannot 'beat' the Grippen (in performance for the time being), the Grippen is in a completely different price bracket and appeals to a completely different base of buyers than the FC-1.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Precisely, and the fact JF-17 is meant to be a cost effective aircraft and design for export. Its no point putting on a USD20 million AESA and jerk up the whole unit price to more than USD 30 million.

In the end, it will end up with no customer as more countries targeted are those with many Mig-21 and F-5EII who badly need modern cost effective warplanes to replace them.

Just look at Thailand who decided to procure Gripen. Now they end up with less than a squadron of Gripen to make with when 2008 economic crisis came again. Gripen is simply too expensive for Thailand to aquire. They shall have go for JF-17.

You've got a great point. As of now no 4th generation fighter is designed with cost-effectiveness in mind and it is time for China to carve out a cheap 4th gen fighter niche. MIG-21 is still the most produced jet fighter due to the fact that it was able to exploit the third world niche. Perhaps JF-17 could pursue a similar role.