Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Radar

Status
Not open for further replies.

J-XX

Banned Idiot
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

Japan would not fire on Chinese civilians on the islands. They would simply arrest, detain and deport them. The only way Chinese civilians could stay on those islands is if the Chinese military is there to back them up. In that case Japan WILL fire on the Chinese military, and call on the US, and the US will fire on the Chinese military. Wishing something won't happen isn't going to make it not happen.

The US will NEVER fire at China on behalf of Japan. All this security treaties are just hot air. The cost of going to war with China is MASSIVE for the US economically and militarily. The US has never forgotten the last time it fought with China (when China was weak) in the Korean War and how the US got kicked out of North Korea once China entered the war.
Despite all of America's wars, it has never defeated a powerful military like Russia or China. Unless it can successfully defeat Russia or China in war, America will remain a barking dog that never bites when it comes to fighting big powers.
It's all well and good bombing countries like Iraq and Afghanistan that can't do damage to the US, but its a whole different league picking fights with big powers that can hurt America badly.
The cost of going to war with China is far too great for America despite security treaties. America will try to intimidate China militarily and put political pressure on China to back down, but the US military will never get into combat with the PLA.

If the Americans support Japan in a war with China, American corporations will suffer greatly as Chinese people will stop buying American brands like they did to Japanese brands. Many American corporations call China it's fastest growing market and its largest or 2nd largest market. Corporations hold massive sway in American politics.

To be frank, even Japan knows the cost of going to war with China is far too great. Just ask all the Japanese brands that rely on the Chinese market that have lost sales.
 
Last edited:

A.Man

Major
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

China Fishery Ships Stopped Japanese Fishing Boats Approaching Diaoyu Islands

[video]http://v.ifeng.com/special/diaoyudaofengbo/[/video]
 

solarz

Brigadier
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

Exactly! International bodies including the UN and the Hague give greater weight to the wishes of the people living on territory rather than the historical legal context. Which is why, if China or Japan settles people on the islands and keeps them there for at least one generation so there are some babies born on the islands, then that will outweigh whatever legal arguments the other claimant can muster. Same thing for the Paracel and Spratly Islands.

I still don't think Japan would go to war if China put civilians on the islands. I think Japan is a paper tiger, even with Abe Shinzo as PM. Their pacificist mentality is still strong. If it was a very weak country like the Philippines, then maybe Japan would venture to attack them. But I do not think Japan would open fire on Chinese naval vessels or civilians on the islands.

You know what, at first I thought your idea was ridiculous. Now I'm thinking it's not so far-fetched after all. Send in a team of scientists and build a "weather station" on one of the islands, backed up by maritime law enforcement (which is a civilian agency). Japan and the US will decry the "escalation" to great lengths, but would they actually risk a violent confrontation?
 

Mysterre

Banned Idiot
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

All this talk of landing boots on the ground is pure madness IMO, and believing that Japan and US will not respond militarily is wishful thinking to the point of delusional. I'm fairly confident, though, that the leadership of China does not feel the same way and will not miscalculate to such an extreme. If China was so confident as some of the people here that neither Japan nor the US would dare to respond militarily to a Chinese invasion of DYT, it would have done so by now. People also hilariously seem to forget that economic interdepedence actually does go both ways, and that current Chinese vulnerability to an oil embargo is almost at the level of a trump card for the US.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

All this talk of landing boots on the ground is pure madness IMO, and believing that Japan and US will not respond militarily is wishful thinking to the point of delusional. I'm fairly confident, though, that the leadership of China does not feel the same way and will not miscalculate to such an extreme. If China was so confident as some of the people here that neither Japan nor the US would dare to respond militarily to a Chinese invasion of DYT, it would have done so by now. People also hilariously seem to forget that economic interdepedence actually does go both ways, and that current Chinese vulnerability to an oil embargo is almost at the level of a trump card for the US.

Who's talking about an invasion? I'm talking about landing civilians there. I seriously doubt Japan would respond militarily to a civilian incursion.

Or, more realistically, China should just start work on an offshore oil platform in the region.
 

Mysterre

Banned Idiot
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

Who's talking about an invasion? I'm talking about landing civilians there. I seriously doubt Japan would respond militarily to a civilian incursion.

Or, more realistically, China should just start work on an offshore oil platform in the region.
Any "civilian incursion" would be evicted, as all of them have in the past. What exactly would be special about your particular civilian incursion? Size? Level of enthusiasm? Presence of garlic? What?
 

solarz

Brigadier
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

Any "civilian incursion" would be evicted, as all of them have in the past. What exactly would be special about your particular civilian incursion? Size? Level of enthusiasm? Presence of garlic? What?

Evicted by whom, exactly? Japanese law enforcement, right? So why can't China send law enforcement of their own and "evict" any Japanese who try to arrest Chinese citizens on Chinese territory?

How many Chinese fishermen have the Japanese arrested since the Chinese started having a law enforcement presence in the area?
 

Mysterre

Banned Idiot
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

Evicted by whom, exactly? Japanese law enforcement, right? So why can't China send law enforcement of their own and "evict" any Japanese who try to arrest Chinese citizens on Chinese territory?
Japan would send enough forces, civilian or military, to effectively evict any intruders. It wouldn't be seen as the bully no matter what sized forces it brings to the islands, and therefore Japan has far more latitude and options than China has. Anybody other than the random fisherman or hardcore flag-planting nationalist would be seen as a dramatic escalation. Japan could plant an army there in response to Chinese incursions and nobody except China would complain, and if China were stupid enough to try and land some law enforcement types on there, this would be the perfect excuse for Japan to build a permanent military base on the islands.

How many Chinese fishermen have the Japanese arrested since the Chinese started having a law enforcement presence in the area?
How many Chinese government employees have tried to land on the islands, EVER?
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

Japan would send enough forces, civilian or military, to effectively evict any intruders. It wouldn't be seen as the bully no matter what sized forces it brings to the islands, and therefore Japan has far more latitude and options than China has. Anybody other than the random fisherman or hardcore flag-planting nationalist would be seen as a dramatic escalation. Japan could plant an army there in response to Chinese incursions and nobody except China would complain, and if China were stupid enough to try and land some law enforcement types on there, this would be the perfect excuse for Japan to build a permanent military base on the islands.


Oh yes it would. Any act put upon Chinese civilians say a shoot out (accident or not) by Japanese law enforcement will result in condemnation by international world body. Remember the Israeli forces that tried to stop a Turkish relief boat from entering the port in Gaza strip that resulted in 9 civilian deaths? Israel lost a lot of political credibility for that action. Your still stuck in your delusional state to think that the entire Pacific world is some how an automatic alliance against China. No body is going to risk wanting to be a part of history as the first victim of the DF-21D for an uninhabited piece of island.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

How many Chinese government employees have tried to land on the islands, EVER?

If the Chinese wants to land civilians on DYT, they need to do so with sufficient backup for success. Chinese officials getting evicted by the Japanese would be extremely humiliating for the CCP, which is why no attempts have been made until now.

However, that does not mean such a thing isn't feasible. It's just that it needs to be done with a lot of preparation. That's why it's easier and more realistic to start with offshore oil platforms first.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top