Japan spots Chinese Warships

Su-27 Pilot

Junior Member
FriedRiceNSpice said:
The Flying Lepaord is also known as the JH-7.

Yes, Jh7 improved version. The improvement included better fire-control systema and other minor computer and radar system. But the turbo-engine is still the same Chinese made one. JH-7 is still in service with the PLAN naval air force
 

BrotherofSnake

Junior Member
Su-27 Pilot said:
That will be an Act of War which will result in massive nuclear strike on the japanese homeland. Somehow Japan and Nuke linked together always. !!

I don't think nukes will be invovled.
 

T-U-P

The Punisher
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
even if they did, the chinese could use it as an excuse to raise defence spending
that would be a bit too late if there's a war happening already.

and no, nukes would not be used. because the whole world would be watching china's next move so there's all the international pressure and china wouldn't dare to use nukes even if it was planned (and i highly doubt that china would've planned on using nukes in the first place).

Su-27 Pilot, please use the "edit" button located at the bottom right-hand corner of your original post if you want to add something instead of double-posting.
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
sry. i forgot about the jh-7a. no nukes will be used, though im sure it will be threatened. the chinese would just sanction japan and the war is won. if not, they could send their taiwan marines to amphip japan before it was ready.
 
MIGleader said:
sry. i forgot about the jh-7a. no nukes will be used, though im sure it will be threatened. the chinese would just sanction japan and the war is won. if not, they could send their taiwan marines to amphip japan before it was ready.

The Taiwan part brought up another good point. Taiwan would probably declare war on Japan too. Maybe even the Koreas.
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
if japan sunk the ships, the chinese would be even more pissed. how would the japs worm their way out of such an incident? that would definitly bar permanent Un membership. maybe thats why china sen the ships, because they knew japan would not sink them.
 

Su-27 Pilot

Junior Member
T-U-P said:
that would be a bit too late if there's a war happening already.

and no, nukes would not be used. because the whole world would be watching china's next move so there's all the international pressure and china wouldn't dare to use nukes even if it was planned (and i highly doubt that china would've planned on using nukes in the first place).

Su-27 Pilot, please use the "edit" button located at the bottom right-hand corner of your original post if you want to add something instead of double-posting.

Oh no I'm not double posting. Im just trying to show some respect to different members instead of pushing all the answers from different posts to one.
 

Su-27 Pilot

Junior Member
MIGleader said:
if japan sunk the ships, the chinese would be even more pissed. how would the japs worm their way out of such an incident? that would definitly bar permanent Un membership. maybe thats why china sen the ships, because they knew japan would not sink them.

Japan is basically a goon controlled by a NATION to both spy and disrupt PRC's political and military activies as much as they want.
 

drunkhomer

Junior Member
China deploys ships to area Japan claims
Tensions rise as fleet of warships appears near disputed gas field just days before election and a few weeks before drilling is to begin
Norimitsu Onishi, Howard W. French, New York Times


Sunday, September 11, 2005

Tokyo -- In a muscular display of its rising military and economic might, China deployed a fleet of five warships on Friday near a gas field in the East China Sea, a potentially resource-rich area that is disputed by China and Japan.

The ships, including a guided-missile destroyer, were spotted by a Japanese military patrol plane near the Chunxiao gas field, according to Japan's Maritime Self-Defense Forces. It is believed to be the first time that Chinese warships have been seen in that area.

Although the fleet's mission was unclear, the timing suggested that it was no coincidence. The warships appeared two days before a general election in Japan, whose results could greatly influence relations between Asia's two great powers, and weeks before China is scheduled to start producing gas in the area, despite strong Japanese protests.

Until Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi diverted Japanese voters' attention away from Japan's deteriorating relationship with China, the focus for several months had been on the increasing diplomatic, military and economic rivalry with China -- much of it taking place in the waters between the countries. Both Japan and China are determined to wield a strong hand in the oil-rich seas and strategic shipping lanes that lie between them.

"It is like the 1930s again, when the central Pacific became a vital concern to both the United States and Japan, whose navy was expanding," said Adm. Lang Ning-li, who until his recent retirement was Taiwan's director of naval intelligence. "That means there could be conflict between China and Japan, which both see these seas as vital and can't share this space."

Security experts from China, Japan, Taiwan and the United States say that all the elements are in place for a showdown over Taiwan between Beijing and Tokyo. No one is predicting war, but Taiwan poses a permanent and unpredictable potential crisis. The United States has a close alliance with Japan, security commitments with Taiwan and a complex relationship with China that mixes rivalry with extensive economic ties.

For America, whose support of either Japan or China has historically tipped the balance in the region, the implications are enormous. The recent statement by a Chinese general that his country would use nuclear weapons against the United States if the U.S. military intervened in a conflict over Taiwan was a sharp reminder that Taiwan's fate remains one of the region's biggest flash points. Many analysts argue that such confrontation, verbal or otherwise, could lead to a regional arms race culminating in a nuclear Japan.

Japan imports all of its oil, and because much of it passes through the seas surrounding Taiwan, it believes that its survival is dependent on keeping those seas stable. Chinese control of Taiwan could hurt Japan's access to oil, Japan fears.

The United States, which has pledged to defend Taiwan if it is attacked by China, would like to count on Japan's help. During the Cold War, Japan conducted joint operations with the United States to keep Soviet submarines out of the Sea of Japan. The submarines are now Chinese, but the policy toward them is pure containment.

"You can come out as much as you want, unless you do something wrong," said Adm. Koichi Furusho, who served as chief of staff of Japan's Maritime Self-Defense Force until January.

This view of China emerged recently in Japan, but Japan's embrace of it is one of the reasons behind the worsening relations between the countries.

During the Cold War, the United States was willing to let Japan remain militarily passive as long as it remained a loyal ally, continued to buy American arms and allowed tens of thousands of U.S. troops to be stationed on Japanese soil.

The Bush administration has pushed Japan to take a more assertive stance. It has called for closer cooperation between the countries' militaries and defense industries and has encouraged conservative Japanese politicians who have long wanted to change the Self-Defense Forces into a full-fledged military and revise Japan's Constitution.

In short order, the Japanese government reinterpreted the Constitution to allow it to dispatch noncombat troops to Iraq and effectively abandoned the decades-old ban against arms exports by joining the American missile defense shield.

Then Japan assumed its familiar role of junior ally to the United States in containment. After China shocked Japan by becoming the third nation to launch a human being into space in late 2003, Japan, which had always regarded such missions as wasteful, recently announced that it would send a Japanese astronaut to the moon within 20 years.

In a major readjustment of its defense policy late last year, Japan redeployed its forces away from northern Japan and the containment of Russia to Okinawa and the containment of China in the East China Sea. Japan's Defense Agency said China was a "concern" because of its nuclear and missile capabilities and the modernization of its navy and air force.

Japan has joined the United States in lobbying the European Union not to lift its arms embargo on China. But the strongest signal yet was Japan's tougher public stance on defending Taiwan against China.

"The joint statement had less to do with Taiwan and more to do with the rise of China, and how Japan and the United States feel a threat from China," said David Huang, Taiwan's vice chairman of mainland affairs. He added: "The joint statement is a signal to China: 'Don't push too far.' "

The United States may see its future rivalry with China as playing out on a global stage. But for Japan, the stage is Asia and the epicenter is around Taiwan.

Most of Japan's oil is shipped through two sea lanes: one directly south of Taiwan and another farther south, which increases the shipping length by two days.

"If you assume conditions are balanced now," said Furusho, the former chief of staff of Japan's Maritime Self-Defense Forces, "they would collapse as soon as Taiwan unifies with China. The sea lanes would turn all red."

For a generation, asserting control over Taiwan has been the most deeply cherished dream of Beijing's politicians. Because so few Chinese still feel ideologically bound to the Communist Party, reuniting Taiwan with mainland China is one of the most important ways to bind the government in Beijing to its public. Standing up to Japan is another, and the two thoughts are increasingly intertwined.

China's leaders have always felt the need to tread carefully in challenging the United States over its security commitments to Taiwan, preferring to bide their time as the Chinese economy grows and its military, particularly its air force and navy, develop into world-class fighting forces. Already, by some estimates, the country has deployed 40 to 60 submarines in the East China Sea, and it is rapidly modernizing this force, acquiring quieter models from Russia and developing increasingly sophisticated nuclear submarines of its own.

But lately, China has shown no patience with Japan and has moved swiftly to warn its neighbor in unusually blunt terms that any interference with Beijing's designs over Taiwan will be dealt with forcefully.

"I would like to say calmly to Japan, 'The Taiwan issue is a domestic affair and a matter of life or death to us,' " Chinese Foreign Minister Li Zhaoxing sternly told his Japanese counterpart recently. "It is dangerous to touch China's matter of life or death."

Indeed, a potentially explosive tussle between the countries is already being played out over large natural gas reserves and potentially important oil reserves beneath the East China Sea. The two countries disagree over how to draw the maritime dividing line between them in these waters.

China has offered to jointly exploit the energy resources in the area, but Japan has refused. Japan, meanwhile, has asked China to share seismic data and other information, and more recently has unsuccessfully urged Beijing to freeze its plans to begin pumping gas.

Chinese officials refused several requests for comment on the issue, but Chinese legal experts say they worry that the situation could get out of hand. "China has given out warnings many times, using tough words, telling Japan not to take any dangerous actions that could disturb stability in the region," said Xiu Bin, an expert in international maritime law at Ocean University in Qingdao, China.

Tokyo recently upped the ante by granting a Japanese company, Teikoku Oil, the rights to test-drill in disputed waters. China, which is conducting gas projects near the test-drilling areas, immediately protested.

No one watches the face-off between the countries more closely than Taiwan, which also has maritime territorial disputes with Japan but cooperates with Japan and the United States in policing the region's waters.

"They are going to be colliding for the foreseeable future, and I don't see how you can avoid that," said Andrew Nien-Dzu Yang, director of the Chinese Council of Advanced Policy Studies in Taipei, the Taiwanese capital.

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IDonT

Senior Member
VIP Professional
ARMED FORCES OF THE WORLD: China, Japan and Their Naval War



September 12, 2005: Recently, a Chinese surface group was detected by a Japanese P-3C in disputed waters near the Senkaku Islands. The group, which consisted of a Sovremenny-class destroyer, two Jianghu I-class missile frigates, a replenishment ship, and a missile observation support ship, was a reasonably powerful force. It does lead to the question: Who would prevail in a fight with Japan over the Senkaku Islands?

Such a battle would primarily involve the navies of both sides. Each operates on a different premise. Japan has a force of destroyers that are highly capable in anti-surface and anti-submarine operations. Japan’s guided missile destroyers are also highly capable anti-air vessels.

Japan has a total of 30 destroyers, nine guided-missile destroyers, and nine frigates. At least two of the older Tachikaze-class guided-missile destroyers will be replaced by the new Atago-class destroyers. Japan also has 16 modern diesel-electric submarines.

The Chinese navy is larger in numbers – carrying 25 destroyers and 45 frigates. However, of these 25 destroyers, 16 are the obsolete Luda class. The same is true for the Chinese frigates – two-thirds of them are the obsolete Jianghu-class ships. These are equipped with antiquated HY-2 missiles, which are copies of the old SS-N-2 Styx – state of the art for 1960. These days, a Styx is an easy kill for any modern surface-to-air missile. China has 65 diesel-electric submarines, but 52 of them are obsolete Romeo and Ming-class submarines. China’s Han-class SSNs are also old and noisy. Again, in terms of modern vessels, China is outnumbered.

Another factor is air cover. The disputed waters are within 300 kilometers of Okinawa. This is easily within the combat radius of the Japanese Air Self-Defense Force’s F-1, F-4EJ Kai, F-15J, and F-2 fighters. Japan has a major air base in Naha, and there is also Kadena Air Force Base, where the United States Air Force keeps a wing of F-15s. The oldest aircraft in service with Japan are the F-4EJ Kais and F-1s – the latter are being replaced by the F-2.

China’s fighters tend to be very old. The only real modern fighters are the J-11 (Russian Su-27) and the Su-30MKK (an Su-27 variant). Japan is almost at parity in terms of numbers (187 F-15J/DJs and 140 F-2s to 380 J-11/Su-30MKK in Chinese service). Japan has superb pilots as well, who get plenty of training. Chinese pilots get less flying time, although they are increasing their training.

Japan also has E-2 and E-767 airborne early warning aircraft that they have years of practice using, while China has only recently acquired Russian A-50 Mainstays.

In a straight naval-air fight over the Senkaku Islands, Japan has an advantage, even if they are on their own. While China is modernizing, Japan is not standing still, modernizing its military and keeping a qualitative edge over its larger neighbor. – Harold C. Hutchison ([email protected])

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