Japan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Skywatcher

Captain
Re: JMSDF 16DDH Carrier Takes shape

I wonder if any news of a PLAN carrier group will come out if and when the JSDF puts F-35s on their carrier? It would certainly mitigate the political impact.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: JMSDF 16DDH Carrier Takes shape

I wonder if any news of a PLAN carrier group will come out if and when the JSDF puts F-35s on their carrier? It would certainly mitigate the political impact.

We have several threads with plenty of information on PLAN Cv development;

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/chinese-navy/

As for the JSF on the 16DDH. We shall have to wait and see. It will be several years in the future...The USN and USMC have no JSF as of yet.
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
Re: JMSDF 16DDH Carrier Takes shape

I think people are forgetting that the Japanese also have a trio of flat tops that they have already; the Osumi class LST's:

Lst4002_jmsdf-01-s.jpg

Specifications
Standard Displacement: 8,900ton
Boundary Dimension:
Length: 178m
Width: 25.8m
Depth: 17.0m
Draft: 6.0m
Main Engine: Mitsui 16V42M-A Diesel x2; 2 shafts propulsion
Horsepower: 26,000bhp; 26,400bhp (LST4002)
Maximum Speed: 22kt
Crew: 135 (138 for LST4002-4003)
Armament: 20mm Close-In Weapons System (CIWS) x1
Special Equipment: Landing Craft Air Cushion x2 on board
 
D

Deleted member 675

Guest
Re: JMSDF 16DDH Carrier Takes shape

I think people are forgetting that the Japanese also have a trio of flat tops that they have already; the Osumi class LST's

What exactly is your point? How is having a flat-top LST somehow significant and relevant to this discussion?
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: JMSDF 16DDH Carrier Takes shape

I think people are forgetting that the Japanese also have a trio of flat tops that they have already; the Osumi class LST's:

[qimg]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a5/Lst4002_jmsdf-01-s.jpg[/qimg]
Specifications
Standard Displacement: 8,900ton
Boundary Dimension:
Length: 178m
Width: 25.8m
Depth: 17.0m
Draft: 6.0m
Main Engine: Mitsui 16V42M-A Diesel x2; 2 shafts propulsion
Horsepower: 26,000bhp; 26,400bhp (LST4002)
Maximum Speed: 22kt
Crew: 135 (138 for LST4002-4003)
Armament: 20mm Close-In Weapons System (CIWS) x1
Special Equipment: Landing Craft Air Cushion x2 on board
Actually, not forgotten at all, as i mention in this post on this thread and picture as well.

While the flat areas on the Osumis would and could accomodate helos and potentially VTOL aircraft, the hanger spaces on these vessels is very small.

They have a well deck (which my picture above show quite clearly) and storage below decks for their infantry contingent and their supplies and vehicles, but very, very litttle room for servicing an air wing. The vessels can maybe accomodate no more than 3-4 helos, and all but onbe of those, I believe, has to be on deck. I do not think the elevator will accomodate a VTOL aircraft.

Their relation to the Hyuga class would be to serve with them as a part of a credible Amphibious assault task force, as I mentioned earlier in the thread.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: JMSDF 16DDH Carrier Takes shape

No hangar on the Osumi class LST...They must have some sort of storage. Look at this picture...The helo has the rotors removed for storage. It's no easy job installing rotors blades. It can be very time consuming...

Anybody know the size including height of the storage aera on this "LST"?

Complain to Jeff about the fuzzy picture:D

134359846c261ef397c10e8f3efad94a.jpg
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
Re: JMSDF 16DDH Carrier Takes shape

The Osumi class does have a storage deck in forward section, which the Japanese claim is for vehicles. But I guess "vehicle" could also include helicopters, if you can somehow squeeze them inside.

With major interior/structural rework, you could install a larger elevator and convert LCAC storage space for hanger space. But that would defeat the purpose of building a LST in the first place. The ship was built to function as an LST, and will be used as such until retirement.

The same goes for the 16DDH. It's built as replacement for earlier ASW DDH and will give the Japanese navy big boost in its capabilities. However the ship was never intended for use as fixed-wing carrier, and will most likely never be refit or rebuilt into a carrier, regardless of whatever speculation people have based on its appearance or name (Hyuga).

The Japanese are doing an incrementalistic approach toward a carrier. If they suddenly unleashed several fixed wing carriers on the scene, it'd provoke hostile response from East Asian neighbors. So they built smaller ones that kidna look like carriers, then bigger ones, and then bigger ones until they build a real carrier with ski jump. Diplomatically speaking it's like dropping several small bombs over time, versus dropping a big one.

In some ways the Japanese are doing a "go slow" approach no different than the Chinese. Slowly build up tonnage and capability, import foreign tech, use joint ventures to obtain technology and improve domestic defense R&D to support your new hardware, and so on. It's a prudent, careful approach, where you have plenty of time to work out bugs and figure out what works and what doesn't.

</rant>

What we see on some forums, is people who get starry-eyed or feel all mushy inside whenever they see a carrier, or anything that could potentially be a carrier (it's a military forum, what did you expect). They wish REALLY hard that a ship would somehow "grow" into a carrier, or country XYZ's navy finally put a carrier to sea by 200X. Then if it doesn't happen, they feel all disappointed and complain about the slow-crawl progress.

In some ways it's like people who buy stocks, then saw the stock go down and they WISH and PRAY really hard that it'd come back up. Sorry, it's not a carrier, will most likely never be a carrier, and that stock ain't rebounding.

</rant off>
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: JMSDF 16DDH Carrier Takes shape

Excellent post adeptitus.:)

However the ship was never intended for use as fixed-wing carrier, and will most likely never be refit or rebuilt into a carrier, regardless of whatever speculation people have based on its appearance or name (Hyuga).

Personally I have the same feeling. In my eyes the ship is a helo carrier. I think the Japanese have understated delibertly the ships capacity. Because they know most civillians really no-nothing about the military. As I have stated before in a few years do not be surprised to see this ship and it's sisters carrying up to 24 helos in an ASW mission or Amphib role.

What we see on some forums, is people who get starry-eyed or feel all mushy inside whenever they see a carrier, or anything that could potentially be a carrier (it's a military forum, what did you expect). They wish REALLY hard that a ship would somehow "grow" into a carrier, or country XYZ's navy finally put a carrier to sea by 200X. Then if it doesn't happen, they feel all disappointed and complain about the slow-crawl progress.

So very true...Even we grown up "fan boys" have dilisiouns of an even more powerful JMSDF backing up the USN...I'm guilty...

However the fact is the JMSDF is indeed very,very strong and great ally of the US. This 16DDH and any subsequent ships of this class will make the JMSDF even stronger.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Recently Japan's Ground Self-Defense Force held a large scale excersise at the foot of Mount Fuji in Gotemba, 100kms west of Tokyo, 26 August 2007. About 2,000 military personnel, 60 tanks and armored vehicles and 20 aircraft took part in the annual exercise. Here are some pictures of the ACTION!

62002505uq2.jpg


75305197ia9.jpg


37458146kz4.jpg


92900542hj5.jpg


99500783dn5.jpg
 
Last edited:

daveman

New Member
Re: JMSDF 16DDH Carrier Takes shape

So very true...Even we grown up "fan boys" have dilisiouns of an even more powerful JMSDF backing up the USN...I'm guilty...
Why the hey would I have any delusions of an ever more powerful Japanese military backing up the US?
 
Top