Japan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

climax

New Member
Re: Japan's military build-up

New news...which could represent a significant build-up and major upgrade to JMSDF capabilities.

The Japanese have apparently proposed another new carrier vessel for the Japanese Maritime Self defense Force (JMSDF). This is in addition to the two Hyuga Class (16DDH) vessels already built and the two Kaga Class (22DDG) vessels which are currently building.

These new vessels would displace 24,000 tons each, but would not include any additional troop or cargo/vehicle transport capabilities (as the Hyuga and Kaga Classes do) and would thus increase the size of its air wing. In addition, these vessels are apparently being purpose designed for fixed wing aircraft operations. Here is a write up regarding the new carrier from a 21C forum announcing and discussing projects from the Technical Research and Development Institute in Japan:

26DDH Aircraft Carrier
Can u give me the link!? (you mean 21 C roleplay forum!?)
And Kaga class from WW2!? or you mean 22DDH !? Is it given a name for its class!?

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climax

New Member
Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

The first four have already been built and launched.

The JMSDF is discussing/planning ordering four more. They are meant as escorts for the Hyuga, the Kaga (22DDH), the Kongo AEGIS, and the Atago AEGIS Classes (the AEGIS vessels when operating in BMD roles). There are a total of ten of those vessels. They know they will need more than four Akizukis to accomplish their escort mission. But nothing has been approved yet.
JMSDF has four Task force groups, so 8 will be enough. Like I know, four more ships will play a difference role.
25DD class destroyer (New 5,000-ton destroyer program revealed in the MoD's FY2013 budget request. Seemingly an ASW optimised development of the Akizuki class likely intended for Sea lines of communication duties rather than the escort of Ageis destroyers as in the case of the Akizuki. Planned to cost even less to operate and maintain than the already low cost Akizuki class, partly through the use of COGLAG [Combined Gas turbine Electric And Gas turbine] propulsion. ¥72.3 billion has been requested for the construction of the first unit in the class.)
I suppose it would not be unprecedented, but for projects even like 22DH we had some warning before they actually announced construction, or for the ROKN's sejong deal it was well known they had an option to purchase 3 more on top of the 3 they had.

The akizuki ddgs are quite strange as well, they have relatively small APARs, and are only equipped with 32 VLS cells (even if ESSMs can be quadpacked) yet this ship displaces a whopping 7000 tons.

I can't help but perceive it as an uber-glorified frigate, and if the JMSDF really want an escort type ship, I feel a frigate in the 054A or GCS weight class would be more affordable and able to be constructed in the numbers they'd need.
Most certainly its displacement warrants the DDG prefix, however its armament and sensor suite -- 8 SSM, 1 main gun (127mm no less), hull and towed sonar, PAR system, and especially the relatively limited 32 Mk-41 VLS, makes it appear underarmed for a ship of that size.

But I can't help feel some eurofrigates, and even 054A to an extent, has a legitimate parity to it in terms of armament, and they are quite a bit smaller than akizuki as well.

The new hobart DDGs will displace similarly to akizuki and carry a 48 cell VLS. I just wonder how much of the akizuki's excess weight is dedicated to its advanced electronics and other internal improvements, and how much of it may be due to... crew comfort facilities, perhaps? It is a similar question one would pose to Type 45 DDGs, which at 8000+ tons, only carry 48 Aster missiles.
They have some new equip like Mobile Decoys (2) and Floating Acoustic Jammer (1), two cranes, a 9m or 12m boat made by composite material.
JMSDG ships have a large fuel store for their Helicopter operations. And I think with large hangar like that, it can hand two SH-60K easy. ( I never see 2 helos in their hangar, but I saw in a picture that's show a SH-60 in Murasame class hangar, and there is still more excess space for one more helo)
It costs almost $1B each, not cheap at all. I bet even 052D would cost less than Akizuki and potentially 052D has much more fire power and stronger AESA
900 millions $ per ship for Japan, not too much expensive with them.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Re: Japan's military build-up

Japans stratedgy was same as UK if the Cold War ever got hot

That is to contain the Soviet submarine threat and stop them from breaking out into deeper water, Royal Navy job was to stop the Soviets from breaking out into the Atlantic and Japans jobs was similar but other end of the world

To under estimate Japan's ASW is a big mistake
 

advill

Junior Member
Re: Japan's military build-up

Several may not remember the capabilities of the Japanese Navy & its tradition & history. The Imperial Japanese Navy was formed in 1869, and Emperor Meiji approved IJN's training by the RN during its formative years. It bought their first battleships from the UK and later built their own warships and aircraft carriers, which were later used at Pearl Harbour and during WW II. Yes, the IJN was defeated during WW II, BUT the JMSDF continues with the Naval Tradition and the fighting spirit. Of course Japanese yards can build modern warships including "small" carriers, with the modern JMSDF considered a capable fighting force now. It is NOT Japanese to boast about their prowess, BUT don't try to "bully" or test their Navy in Battle - "JMSDF Actions will Speak Louder than words & posturing by some potential opponents".



Japans stratedgy was same as UK if the Cold War ever got hot

That is to contain the Soviet submarine threat and stop them from breaking out into deeper water, Royal Navy job was to stop the Soviets from breaking out into the Atlantic and Japans jobs was similar but other end of the world

To under estimate Japan's ASW is a big mistake
 

climax

New Member
Re: Japan's military build-up

Japans stratedgy was same as UK if the Cold War ever got hot

That is to contain the Soviet submarine threat and stop them from breaking out into deeper water, Royal Navy job was to stop the Soviets from breaking out into the Atlantic and Japans jobs was similar but other end of the world

To under estimate Japan's ASW is a big mistake

So what's about PRC's Submarine!?
They have a big force and still increase it.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Japan's military build-up

So what's about PRC's Submarine!? They have a big force and still increase it.
In this regard (excluding the SSBN subs), the Chinese sub force is basically a three fold force.

1) Nuclear attack subs.
2) Newer Diesel Electric subs.
3) Older deisel subs.

The nuclear subs are all too loud at this point. They are nuclear, and they can sustain high speeds and keep up with their own high value vessels to protect them, or attempt to intercept adversaries. But the Han (Type 091) are old and near the end of their service life and far too loud. The PLAN tried with the Type 093 to create a newer class which was a lot quieter, but apparently, though the vessels were better than the Hans they were still too loud. The PLAN built two of those, and then are in the process of building four more improved Type 093s which may come up to the Victor III Russian boat level of quietness. It is my understanding that the Type 095 is now being built which they hope will be more quiet...perhaps up to the US Los Angeles class Flight II boats. Such a level represents a very crdible threat, but is still two generations behind the state of the art Russian and US boats. And there will be very small numbers of them for quit some time.

The newer diesel electrics consist of the Kilos (12), the Song or Type 039 (13), and the Yuan or Typre 041 (7) submarines . All are decent vessels and failrly quiet. The newer Yuan class supposeldy has AIP, which will improve its abaility to stay hidden for longer periods of time. However, as diesel electrics, they do not have the speed or the ability to sustain operations in order to escort high value units or very ably intercept high speed adversaries on the high sea. They either have to wait at choke points, or they have to have good enough intelligence (G2) to know where an adversary is going to be and then go there and wait for them. Adversaries know these things and will conduct very stringent ASW operations in those areas.

The older Diesel Electrics, ie Ming or Type 035 (17) are a much older design, although (amazingly) four of them were still built with significant updates into the 2000s. They would be good for coastal water defense, or intelliegence gathering and surveillance, or in Task Force (or Packs) with other, newer diesel electrics where they could provide cover for those more quiet boats.

The JMSDF has trained, in very realsitic operations and in fact against operating Russian boats, both nuclear and diesel/electrics. They have decades of experience and equipment that has been developed and honed specifically for this task. During the cold war, their major task would have been to provide broad, outer ring ASW operations for the US Navy who would use their own escorts for inner ring ASW while the carriers were used for offensive operations.

The two nations have worked on every imagineable ASW scenario for deacdes together and are very good at it, with a LOT of new, very capable vessels. That is why so many say that one cannot and should not underestimate the capabilities of the JMSDF in this regard.

These Akizuki DDGs are the apex and pinnacle of that long line of development and expertise, along with the Hyugas. The Hyugas would provide significant helo ASW capabilities and numbers to saturate any area suspected of harboring adversary submarines.
 
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Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

Hi, that's my very first post here, hope I'll make it :) I'm from the Czech Republic, yes, a country which doesn't have access to sea ... anyway, you mentioned a fairly high displacement of 19DD so I was thinking if it can't be also (in addition to many other things) because the antennas of the FCS-3A radar are distributed, I mean there are four of them foreship and another four atop the hangar? What do you think? By the way, I've read there are also two engine rooms (with two turbines in each of them) on 19DD. Do you think this "redundancy" is important? Thanks!
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

Hi, that's my very first post here, hope I'll make it :) I'm from the Czech Republic, yes, a country which doesn't have access to sea ... anyway, you mentioned a fairly high displacement of 19DD so I was thinking if it can't be also (in addition to many other things) because the antennas of the FCS-3A radar are distributed, I mean there are four of them foreship and another four atop the hangar? What do you think? By the way, I've read there are also two engine rooms (with two turbines in each of them) on 19DD. Do you think this "redundancy" is important? Thanks!
The displacement is correct, and the FCS-3A includes a dual band radar which probably accounts for the different apperatures, two in each direction.

They are really very capable vessels.
 

delft

Brigadier
Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

Hi, that's my very first post here, hope I'll make it :) I'm from the Czech Republic, yes, a country which doesn't have access to sea ... anyway, you mentioned a fairly high displacement of 19DD so I was thinking if it can't be also (in addition to many other things) because the antennas of the FCS-3A radar are distributed, I mean there are four of them foreship and another four atop the hangar? What do you think? By the way, I've read there are also two engine rooms (with two turbines in each of them) on 19DD. Do you think this "redundancy" is important? Thanks!
More than one engine room has been usual in naval vessels for a long time. You don't want a hit in your only engine room to leave you without propulsion, other power, ability to pump out water. Indeed the ship might be lost due to even a small mishap in your engine room.
 
Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

Jeff, delft:
Thanks for reacting to my post :) Separate engine rooms is certainly a good idea, but it seems the 25DD, "successor" of 19DD, will have the radar arrays just on the main mast (and not four of them foreship and the other four atop the hangar as on 19DD); you sure know this graphics: (oh, it says I can't post it because:
To be able to post links or images your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 1 posts.) :)
I saw it in the document: Key Figures from the MoD FY2013 Budget Request
by James Simpson on Sep 7, 2012
the caption: The proposed new class, 25DD, is reportedly an improvement of the 19DD-class

Greetings from Prague,
Jura
 
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