Japan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Re: Japan's military build-up

Okay, then. Getting back on topic. I believe this was a very interesting development and wanted to show this new video here of the U.S. Marine MV-22 Osprey landings on the two JMSDF ships, one of their , the Shimokita, L-4002, and one of their , the Hyuga DDH-181.


Great stuff and a great example how cross decking can add significant capabilities. Notice the Chinook also on the Hyuga.

I believe the day will come when we see the same type of cross decking operations with the aboard the newer, larger the JMSDF is currently building. In fact, it is very possible that those two new aircraft carriers will deploy the F-35B themselves.

Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

Stunning DDG looks even better in the camo

Re: JMSDF Akizuki Class DDG (19DD AEGIS-like)

asif iqbal said:

Stunning DDG looks even better in the camo

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Yes, they are very good looking vessels. Very clean lines.

The Japanese have produced these rapidly too. Building them in two different shipyards. Started the first in 2009 and had four launched by 2012. Two are alread commissoned and the the other two are 1) in trials and 2) outfitting and will be commissioned by 2014. More are planned.

I believe that they will be very effective medium to short range AAW vessels with their attle management systems, dual band radars and 64 ESSMs each. They will also be very effective in the ASuW and ASW roles.

Re: Japan's military build-up

Seems like the PAC-Rim profits from the presence of a superpower that makes combat futile.
What exactly is the Japanese ambition in upping their military expenditure?

They start from a pretty low level and are still low in one of the fastest advancing militarised regions of the world. Furthermore, they are in a setting of intent on violating any attempts of them being neutral by the First and Second Island Chain as part of Bejing's naval strategy and they could feel as snug and safe as Taiwan with all that island invasion capability. Maybe they share such a feeling of safety with the Republic of Korea?
The dispute just sounded like that:

A perfect excuse for mayhem and destruction.

Re: Japan's military build-up

Kurt said:

They start from a pretty low level and are still low in one of the fastest advancing militarised regions of the world. Furthermore, they are in a setting of intent on violating any attempts of them being neutral by the First and Second Island Chain as part of Bejing's naval strategy.

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Actually, the JMSDF starts from a very high level of capability, not a low one. The JMSDF is certainly the second most powerful Navy in the Pacific outside of the US Navy in terms of pure conventional capabilities of their "modern" frigates, destroyers, and submarines combined. But the PLAN is catching up with that, and challenging it now very rapidly.

The Japanese have their own intersts in the 1st and 2nd island chains in terms of resources, trade, etc. and want to protect and defend those interests just like anyone else hopes to do with their own.

The Japanese, more than anything else, continue trying to achieve these goals by upgrading their capabilities through replacing their older systems/vessels with newer, more modern ones. These systems cost more money that the earlier systems.

For example, the four earlier Helicopter destroyers the JMSDF had were two (2) Haruna Class DDHs (7,000 tons) and two (2) Shirane Class DDHs (7,600 tons).

The Haruna class has been rpelaced by the (20,000 tons), which are much larger, much more modern, and much more capable. As soon as they were commissioned, the Hauna were decommissioned.

Now, the Shirane Class will be replaced by the two new (27,000 ton) vessels being built, which are even larger and more capable. Both the Hyuga Class and the 22DDH Class cost a lot more than the former Harunu and Shirane classses.


This is an example of what is happening with the JMSDF "build-up". In most cases, they are replacing older vessels with newer, much more capable, and more expensive vessels.

Re: Japan's military build-up

Jeff Head said:

Actually, the JMSDF starts from a very high level of capability, not a low one. The JMSDF is certainly the second most powerful Navy in the Pacific outside of the US Navy in terms of pure conventional capabilities of their "modern" frigates, destroyers, and submarines combined. But the PLAN is catching up with that, and challenging it now very rapidly.

The Japanese have their own intersts in the 1st and 2nd island chains in terms of resources, trade, etc. and want to protect and defend those interests just like anyone else hopes to do with their own.

The Japanese, more than anything else, continue trying to achieve these goals by upgrading their capabilities through replacing their older systems/vessels with newer, more modern ones. These systems cost more money that the earlier systems.


This is an example of what is happening with the JMSDF "build-up". In most cases, they are replacing older vessels with newer, much more capable, and more expensive vessels.

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I think he meant lower level as in % of GDP not capabilities. Japan only spends about 1% of their GDP on defense compared to 4% for US and 2 to 3% for most NATO countries.

Re: Japan's military build-up

Jeff Head said:

I think the Japanese planners are well prepared for a protracted maritime conflict. It is what they have been preparoing for for 3+ decades. Any new Russian vessels must get there, and to do so, they will have tpo pass a guantlet waiting for them.

If this were an all out war of one nation trying to defeat and the other entirely, you would be correct in an individual Russian vs Japanese conflict...but even then it would not be a mop up. it would take a lot of time...and it is not going to stay a Russia vs Japan conflict in that case anyway. The US has a mutal defense treaty with Japan.

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Russians could move ships trough "Northern route" with the help of icebreakers . It would depend on the season of the year .



Only realistic scenario of Japan vs Russia conflict without Russians using nuclear weapons would be Japanese invasion of Kuril Islands . Suppose this happens and suppose other countries decline to participate . What would happen ? After initial shock , Russians would first reinforce air component to establish air superiority . Then they would exploit Japanese weakness - Japan is an island with heavy dependance on sea traffic . Imagine Russian bombers attacking any ship they could find bound for Japan , and staying just outside Japan's fighter range . Imagine Japan forced to defend itself after few initial successes , without opportunity to effectively counter strike . That is your scenario for conflict and that is way I said JMSDF is not first class navy , despite large number of modern ships .

Re: Japan's military build-up

thunderchief said:

Imagine Russian bombers attacking any ship they could find bound for Japan , and staying just outside Japan's fighter range . Imagine Japan forced to defend itself after few initial successes , without opportunity to effectively counter strike . That is your scenario for conflict and that is way I said JMSDF is not first class navy , despite large number of modern ships .

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So, you think these countries whose shipping was being attacked would just sit back and let that be? That they would, "decline to participate?"

Nope.

There's a 1st reason that "your scenario" scenario would not work.

2nd reason. Did you ever hear of aerial refueling? Japan is very good at it and has the aircraft to do it. So, the whole idea of the bombers "staying just outside of Japan fighter range," does not work either.

Finally, you can say whatever you want about Japan not being a first class navy. But...that does not make it so. Anyone who has ever worked directly in the naval defense industry or with naval issues (which I have for many years) or who has served in the US navy or any navy that interfaces with, or faces Japan (for example...ask Popeye here who did) knows differently...including both the Chinese and Russian military planners, and their own naval personnel.

Re: Japan's military build-up

Jeff Head said:

So, you think these countries whose shipping was being attacked would just sit back and let that be? That they would, "decline to participate?"

Nope.

There's a 1st reason that "your scenario" scenario would not work.

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In today's world , shipowners pay the ransom even to small-time crooks like Somalia pirates . Imagine what would they do with "big pirate" like Russia So , most of shipowners would avoid Japan ,and those who don't would demand extra-orbital prices for their services .

Jeff Head said:

2nd reason. Did you ever hear of aerial refueling? Japan is very good at it and has the aircraft to do it. So, the whole idea of the bombers "staying just outside of Japan fighter range," does not work either.

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Ever heard of Mig-31 ? Imagine what would happen to air tanker who venture to far to the sea ?

Jeff Head said:

Finally, you can say whatever you want about Japan not being a first class navy. But...that does not make it so. Anyone who has ever worked directly in the naval defense industry or with naval issues (which I have for many years) or who has served in the US navy or any navy that interfaces with, or faces Japan (for example...ask Popeye here who did) knows differently...including both the Chinese and Russian military planners, and their own naval personnel.

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You cannot have first class navy (blue-water navy ) without aircraft carriers and nuclear subs . That is the fact of the life . Without that , you cannot venture far from the shore and you cannot project power .

Re: Japan's military build-up

thunderchief said:

In today's world , shipowners pay the ransom even to small-time crooks like Somalia pirates . Imagine what would they do with "big pirate" like Russia So , most of shipowners would avoid Japan ,and those who don't would demand extra-orbital prices for their services .

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Time for a little reality check here Thunderchief. You actually think Russia wil start attacking third party commercial shipping coming into Japan over these islands in your scenario? That's just crazy thinking. That would ensure war with those countries...forget the ship owners, Russia would soon find themselves at war with those governments of the ships whom they attack. They will not escalate a scenario about the islands in this fashion.

What would happen is that an exclusion zone would be set up around the conflict warning any commercial shipping away from those specific areas. That's what would happen in such a scanrio. It would have to be an all out war scenarion that would lead to what you propose.

thunderchief said:

Ever heard of Mig-31 ? Imagine what would happen to air tanker who venture to far to the sea ?

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The tankers do not have to venture far to sea. They refuel the aircraft coming and going because taking off rerquires large amounts of fuel. So they refuel them near the base, and then just far enough to ensure they get home. While doing so, they themselves are protected by very strong AWACS aircraft and fighters. Read up a little more on doctrine.

thunderchief said:

You cannot have first class navy (blue-water navy ) without aircraft carriers and nuclear subs . That is the fact of the life . Without that , you cannot venture far from the shore and you cannot project power .

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It may be a fact in your life, Thunder, but it is not a fact in real life.

Japan is not trying to project power to some distant spot. Your own scenario is about islands that are a natural extension of the Japanese islands. They just have to defend them, and they do not need aircraft carriers (though I believe the two 22DDH carriers will be able to employ the F-35Bs) or nuclear submarines to do that. The OPFOR has to come to them.

That is why I have said that anyone who has actually worked in this industry, or who has been in any competent, modern navy who has either interfaced with ther JMSDF, or faced them at sea, knows better that to make a rediculous statement like the JMSDF is not a 1st class Navy.

Continuing to say so actually hurts your position all the more each time you do so..