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Re: Japanese Return to Militarism!

I'm saying all this to point out that any move toward militarization will have a huge cost to the Japanese economy with very dubious benefits in terms of actual safety.

Agreed.

My argument is the Chinese military upgrade is not primarily targeting Japan. There are many more ways to retaliate than militarily.

Hence justifying Japanese military build-up as a reaction to Chinese military modernization is kaputz.
 

usaf0314

Junior Member
Re: Japanese Return to Militarism!

The right wing of the japanese political seats are slowly filling up its government. In the past(post WWII - 2000) you almost see no right wing politicians in its public office, they were shamed and forced underground by the Japanese public. after 2000, with the rise of China and tension on the Korean peninsula, Japan become guarded and fear of retaliation for their deeds during WWII(on top of not admitting its crimes, visiting their war "hero" shrines). Japan start to gradually militarize use loop holes in their legislature as well and making new laws to allow for military expansion. This of course could not be done without the support of the United States.

Bottom line is, the United States allow Japan to expand to keep tabs on China. U.S. has every reason to let this happen. When there is tension in the area, Japan want U.S. the big brother to be there, however U.S. won't allow Japan to grow back to a full blown military, reason being, U.S. want its military bases on Japanese territory, this is not only a strategic gain, but also an economic gain. If Japan revive its traditional military, there would be no reason to allow U.S. to stay on its territory.

not sure if this make sense to you guys, but this at least is the Chinese analysis of the situation.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Re: Japanese Return to Militarism!

Eventually things have to change. Germany has moved on yes but she hardly bent over backwards even today their are still ghosts of the dark days of Nazi Germany. Still deep rooted seeds of antisemetic hate. For example the Uganda club who wants to force the relocation of the Jewish peoples to the Uganda. For you normalised relations may not seem right but after seventy years if not now when?
As for expeditionary vs finance the JSDF budget for 2012 was 55.9 billion or 1% of GDP the french 58.9 or 2.5%of GDP

If you think what Germany has done is not bending backwards, I wonder how you would characterise what the Japanese have done to try and redeem themselves in the eyes of their victims.

You have to dig up extreme fringe groups like the Uganda club, which frankly, has a minuscule following and I would be surprised if many people have even heard of them.

Japanese government ministers and officials and even Prime Ministors have visited shrines dedicated to the very worst war criminals in recent human history, denied Japan's wartime attrocities and only offered a grudging and conditional apology in 1992 and still holds territory seized through wartime aggression.

Can anyone even imagine any German politician going to pay their respects to the tombs of Hitler, Gerbals and the rest, denied the holocaust happened and threatened to use force to defined territory nazi Germany seized through wars of aggression?

The passage of time does not absolve the guilty, only true contrition and remorse will. If Japan is hoping that China or South Korea would simply forget about the horrors it inflicted on them, then Japan is delusional.

Japan might formalise their existing military force and even expand it, but doing so will only make its neighbours spend more themselves on defence to counter the new Japanese military and deepen the already significant mistrust and even resentment its neighbours feel towards Japan, because Japan has not even come close to earning the right to be forgiven and accepted as a normal member of the international community in the eyes of anyone other than the Americans.

Thus, far from adding stability as the Americans no doubt hope, Japanese rearmament will only serve to heighten tensions and further destabilise the region and make conflict more, not less, likely. And with the way Japanese leaders and ultranationalists have been clowning around keeping old resentments fresh over the decades, if conflict breaks out, it would be all but impossible to put an end to it, because if Japan starts another war with China, there is no way China would leave the job half done again as America did during the closing stages of WWII.

Unlike nazi Germany, imperialist Japan was never fully cleansed of the fascists and nazis, many of whom not only escaped punishment, but also managed to remain in positions of power and authority to pass on their sick ideology which shaped the minds of many Japanese in power today. Unless these degenerates are thoroughly purged once and for all and future Japanese gerenations taught in no uncertain terms the errors of their past ways and the horrors that was done in their name, Japan will always be a danger and threat to its neighbours and the world at large. Because unlike Germany, many Japanese are not really sorry about what Japan did in WWII, they are only sorry they lost, and are always looking to try and regain the 'past glory' of imperialist Japan using any means necessary, including military aggression, to do so.
 

Player 0

Junior Member
Re: Japanese Return to Militarism!

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A good analysis of the nature of the history of the Japanese constitution and the political processes of how Abe intends to call for reforms.
 

no_name

Colonel
Re: Japanese Return to Militarism!

Allowing Japan to keep their Tenno after WWII has been a mistake, if the Tenno has been punished and the position abolished, no one would still think the far right position is acceptable.

Japan still has their own version of mandate of heaven kept very much alive.
 

nugroho

Junior Member
Re: Japanese Return to Militarism!

Unlike nazi Germany, imperialist Japan was never fully cleansed of the fascists and nazis, many of whom not only escaped punishment, but also managed to remain in positions of power and authority to pass on their sick ideology which shaped the minds of many Japanese in power today. Unless these degenerates are thoroughly purged once and for all and future Japanese gerenations taught in no uncertain terms the errors of their past ways and the horrors that was done in their name, Japan will always be a danger and threat to its neighbours and the world at large. Because unlike Germany, many Japanese are not really sorry about what Japan did in WWII, they are only sorry they lost, and are always looking to try and regain the 'past glory' of imperialist Japan using any means necessary, including military aggression, to do so.

This is the most describing paragraph of coordinated, efficient Japan.
 

advill

Junior Member
Re: Japanese Return to Militarism!

I beg to differ, unless China "dumps" North Korea, South Korea will never side with China as the Chinese always supported the North Koreans, including the invasion of South Korea - Remember Korean War?. As for Japanese return to militarism, this is expected, whether rightly or wrongly. If one studied Japanese Military History, the "Samurais" retaliated whenever they feel threatened - Russo-Japanese War, "The Divine Wind Wind" where the Japanese prepared for the invasion by the Kublai Khan and his hordes when they ruled China. There is no denying that the Japanese did wrong to countries in Asia by invading their territories during WW II. However, as long as they are now the allies of the US and Democratic Countries, they will likely refrain from being the pompous dictators. We will have to observe which country or countries would be the "bullies" from now on. The lesson to be learnt is "Action begets reactions" - inc. Japanese return to militarism.



A Japanese push for militarization, and the perceived American willingness to allow this, would only serve to push South Korea closer to China.
 

Player 0

Junior Member
Re: Japanese Return to Militarism!

I beg to differ, unless China "dumps" North Korea, South Korea will never side with China as the Chinese always supported the North Koreans, including the invasion of South Korea - Remember Korean War?. As for Japanese return to militarism, this is expected, whether rightly or wrongly. If one studied Japanese Military History, the "Samurais" retaliated whenever they feel threatened - Russo-Japanese War, "The Divine Wind Wind" where the Japanese prepared for the invasion by the Kublai Khan and his hordes when they ruled China. There is no denying that the Japanese did wrong to countries in Asia by invading their territories during WW II. However, as long as they are now the allies of the US and Democratic Countries, they will likely refrain from being the pompous dictators. We will have to observe which country or countries would be the "bullies" from now on. The lesson to be learnt is "Action begets reactions" - inc. Japanese return to militarism.

You need to start paying more attention to the news, China has already 'dumped' NKorea to a certain extent by freezing their assets within the Chinese banks, and pretty came to an agreement with Obama that they're both going to take a united front against NKorea's nuclear program.

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As for Japan only 'reacting' to aggression, its funny you cherry pick those specific instances, what about the Imjin wars when Japan launched its first major attempt to conquer Korea? What about the assorted wars in the late 1800s to take control of Korea and Manchuria, Japan's intervention in WWI on the side of the allies and subsequent intervention in the Russian civil war? All of WWII, the second Sino-Japanese war and the battle of Khalkhin Gol.

To say that just because Japan is restrained by its alliance with the US doesn't guarantee anything, it might be downplayed and restrained as China and the US get increasingly closer and work out their differences, or Japan could follow Israel's example and militarize to the point of preemptively striking NKorea or sparking a new arms race in the region and creating a third side to the regional alliance politics that seem to be tearing the region apart.
 

usaf0314

Junior Member
Re: Japanese Return to Militarism!

I beg to differ, unless China "dumps" North Korea, South Korea will never side with China as the Chinese always supported the North Koreans, including the invasion of South Korea - Remember Korean War?. As for Japanese return to militarism, this is expected, whether rightly or wrongly. If one studied Japanese Military History, the "Samurais" retaliated whenever they feel threatened - Russo-Japanese War, "The Divine Wind Wind" where the Japanese prepared for the invasion by the Kublai Khan and his hordes when they ruled China. There is no denying that the Japanese did wrong to countries in Asia by invading their territories during WW II. However, as long as they are now the allies of the US and Democratic Countries, they will likely refrain from being the pompous dictators. We will have to observe which country or countries would be the "bullies" from now on. The lesson to be learnt is "Action begets reactions" - inc. Japanese return to militarism.

During the Korean War, Chinese involvement was due to the fear of an imperialist U.S. and its invasion of China after securing a foothold on the Chinese border, which today both side know it was a misunderstanding. With the new geopolitical environment and DPRK's constant defiant of the PRC, China's support is limited. I am not sure if China will send troops to defend North Korea if South Korea invades(lets face it, RoK. want none of DPRK right now). Unity on the Korean Peninsula is impossible with the current N.K leadership, there will have to be a revolution or a coup d'etat within the DPRK and then peace might be possible.

As for militarization of Japan, no one would mind if Japan apologized and admitted their crimes. The Germany Prime Minister during her visit to Poland got down on her knees apologizing for her nation. (the Poland delegate asked her, why do you apologize, it wasn't the Germany of today who committed the crime, she answered "it was our people, i feel ashamed for my predecessors to commit such atrocity"). and today as we can see the EU is at peace with one and other, even military cooperation between Germany and its neighbors. Japan on the other hand, not only they do not apologize(the samurai tradition, root of the Japanese civilization does not look at themselves as they lost to China or its neighbors, they do not admit defeat to them since it was America the one put Japan on its knees), they even have further territory disputes dating all the way back to WWII. so right now when Japan see the rise of China, they fear retaliation, they are plagued by their guilt and their tradition would not allow them to admit their crime and atrocity. and with this mentality, and the current far right taking power inside Japanese politics, a japan that will make peace with its neighbors is faint. however i don't think they will fully revive militarism, after all, they are the only nation suffered the wrong end of a nuclear bomb, i don't think the Japanese people will allow the full revival of Japanese militarism.
 
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