Japan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Jeff Head · Jun 15, 2013

Re: Japan's military build-up

montyp165 said:
The JMSDF like its Imperial predecessor has a significant number of advanced combat vessels and trained crews, but at the same time I would still consider the Russian and Chinese fleets to have the better logistical support and organizational/doctrinal framework necessary for total war operations if it ever came to that, strategically speaking more favorably comparable to the USN rather than the relative Royal Navy/German Navy force ratio levels during the world wars.

Well, I'd say that the Chinese are starting to get there...but have very limited blue water experience or expertise and still have a ways to go to match the JMSDF. They are not far from it though, and at the current time it would be a very hard fought and costly issue for both sides if it were just the two of them involved in a purely maritime confrontation.

I'd say that the Russian Navy is trying to get back there after sitting rusting in port for the last 20 years...but is still not nearly back to where they were as the Soviet Union in the 1980s. They are not nearly, IMHO, in a position at this point to really challenge the JMSDF on a one on one maritime basis.

asif iqbal · Jun 15, 2013

Re: Japan's military build-up

montyp165 said:
The JMSDF like its Imperial predecessor has a significant number of advanced combat vessels and trained crews, but at the same time I would still consider the Russian and Chinese fleets to have the better logistical support and organizational/doctrinal framework necessary for total war operations if it ever came to that, strategically speaking more favorably comparable to the USN rather than the relative Royal Navy/German Navy force ratio levels during the world wars.

What? Russia better than JMSDF, I think your facts are wrong, anyone who has seen a JMSDF DDG like the Atago and Kongo Class and thier respective crews will know what a formidable navy Japan has, highly effective, highly trained, very professional and at the same time extremely well equipped

Russia would see a repeat of 1904 war if it ever tried to go toe to toe with the JMSDF, even today in terms of PLAN the JMSDF still have a edge in many aspects of warfare, it won't be till end of this decade that China will match JMSDF DDG fleet, and probably longer to get to that level of experience

In terms of naval assets the JMSDF is second only to the USN

thunderchief · Jun 15, 2013

Re: Japan's military build-up

Currently Japanese economy is on the brink of collapse , with debt to GDP ratio of 220% and Abe government relentlessly printing yens to "stop deflation" . Historically , much of Japanese debt was in domestic hands and that prevented implosion . But overseas holdings of Japanese national debt are rising and much of those holdings is in Chinese hands (between 2-3% of total debt) and rising . That may not sound as much , but it is enough to start rout on international markets .

If you really think China will allow massive re-militarization of Japan , you better think again

. In fact , event in the current squabble over Senkaku islands China fired few warning shoots over Japanese bow :

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TerraN_EmpirE · Jun 15, 2013

Re: Japan's military build-up

montyp165 said:
Regarding Japanese militarist sentiment, interestingly enough pop culture elements like the (in)famous anime and manga subcultures for instance tend much to be very strongly against the right-wing elements in Japan (if you've ever seen Zipang for instance), as they've not only acknowledge the better socioeconomic environment of post-war Japan compared to the rigidly structured pre-war imperial system, the pointless sacrifice of people and resources for the benefit of those right-wing elites compounded by the right-wings hate of modern Japanese pop culture, so even in Japan the culture wars can be crazier than the worst Red State/Blue State nuttiness in the US. (At the very least the pop culture recognizes the very bad things Japan did during the War, so that's something Chinese PR should take into account).

As a self admitted American Otaku I can back that, it should be noted that Anime is not such a sub culture to the Japanese.

On the Osprey issue you have to remember the Okinawa plays host to the vast majority of the fire power of Japan. Both American and Japanese Its that the actual issue was more the discomfort of the locals with the American and Japanese military. That much fire power in one place came make one feel like they are living in a occupation, bed to that incidents of criminal behaviour, Its sad but true that their are individuals who take disgrace the uniform. True of any military.

Jeff Head · Jun 15, 2013

Re: Japan's military build-up

thunderchief said:
If you really think China will allow massive re-militarization of Japan , you better think again .

I have news for you, Japan is already "militarized." Very strong Air Force, Navy and Army.

Read my earlier post (maybe four or five posts earlier than this one) about the size and scope of the current Japanese Maritime forces...their navy.

It is probably only second to the US Navy.

Apparently China "allowed" that to happen despite your claims.

It is not China's position to "allow" or not "allow" what goes on in Japan, and how they develop their force structure. It would be China's position to stop aggression by Japan against it or its allies.

As I said, Japan is already strongly "militarized." They have strong and effective forces. The current debate is really only about whether they now reflect that reality officially in their constitution, because, as I say, they have simply called it a defense force and proceeded anyway.

montyp165 · Jun 15, 2013

Re: Japan's military build-up

asif iqbal said:
What? Russia better than JMSDF, I think your facts are wrong, anyone who has seen a JMSDF DDG like the Atago and Kongo Class and thier respective crews will know what a formidable navy Japan has, highly effective, highly trained, very professional and at the same time extremely well equipped

Russia would see a repeat of 1904 war if it ever tried to go toe to toe with the JMSDF, even today in terms of PLAN the JMSDF still have a edge in many aspects of warfare, it won't be till end of this decade that China will match JMSDF DDG fleet, and probably longer to get to that level of experience

In terms of naval assets the JMSDF is second only to the USN

It's not the issue of assets here wrt Russian capabilities, rather that the Russians have in the past been able to fight well despite equipment deficiencies due to effective doctrine and operational level excellence, of which that core still remains in spite of the disruptions caused by the fall of the Soviet Union and economic recovery. Russia may not be as strong as the Soviets in the past right now, but neither are they as weak as some may presume, to paraphrase an old quote.

As for the PLAN, as long as doctrine is sound experience will be made in short order, as the USN itself is a good example.

mr.bean · Jun 15, 2013

Re: Japan's military build-up

Jeff Head said:
I have news for you, Japan is already "militarized." Very strong Air Force, Navy and Army.

Read my earlier post (maybe four or five posts earlier than this one) about the size and scope of the current Japanese Maritime forces...their navy.

It is probably only second to the US Navy.

Apparently China "allowed" that to happen despite your claims.

It is not China's position to "allow" or not "allow" what goes on in Japan, and how they develop their force structure. It would be China's position to stop aggression by Japan against it or its allies.

As I said, Japan is already strongly "militarized." They have strong and effective forces. The current debate is really only about whether they now reflect that reality officially in their constitution, because, as I say, they have simply called it a defense force and proceeded anyway.

hey jeff it seems that Japan's JSDMF is way stronger and better fleet than the French navy that you listed in a thread recently. if we look at a nation's GDP and industrial sophistication then it should naturally have a military that reflects that nation's strength. Japan's JSDMF is definetly the 2nd best fleet in the world. china is the only game changer around. if it weren't for china the Japanese will remain 2nd best forever because no nation can surpass it. no wonder these 2 nations don't get along.

Surgeon · Jun 15, 2013

Re: Japanese Return to Militarism!

plawolf said:
Maybe you are not up to date with current affairs, but China is no friend of NK, and is being held hostage by NK as much as America or South Korea.

I have stated multiple times before that I think Beijing would be willing to make a grand bargain with SK, whereby the whole of the Korean Peninsula is reunited under South Korea, in exchange for South Korea allying itself with China.

South Korea may think they can get a better deal sticking with the US, but if Japan shows signs of returning to its militaristic ways and America looks to be encouraging them, then SK's calculations may change accordingly.

Maybe you are not up to date with your history either. It was the Soviets who armed the North Koreans. China did not get involved in the Korean War until the US forces ignored an explicit warnings not to advance too close to the Chinese boarder.

Either you don't know much about your history, in which case I would suggest you familiarise yourself with the relevant details before coming up with conclusions, or that is a case of an attempt to downplay the true nature of Imperialist Japan's war crimes on par with what the revisionists are trying to do with Japanese history books.

Oh please spare us the sanctimonious propaganda about how 'democracies' are inherent better. Just look back at recent history and you can see that your precious democracies are responsible for more than its fair share of wars of aggression since WWII.

Even WWII in Europe could arguably be said to have been started by a democracy. Modern pro-democracy writers would nit pick and spin till they go blue, but the cold hard fact remains that Hitler rose to power via the ballot box, and was wildly popular for pretty much the entire war to the point that had regular elections been held, he would have won by a landslide by any voting system.

It is precisely this kind of blind wishful thinking and complacency that allowed special interests to push democracies into waging wars of aggression in the past, and will make it easy for them to do so again if people simply do not learn.

Indeed we should, although something tells me you and I would come to very different conclusions on who has actually been the bully and who the victim.

If NK ceases to exist, the United States would have no legitimate reason for maintaining forces on the Korean peninsula as the reason they have a presence there is to deter an attack by the North. Should both Korea's unite into a single entity; a defense pact between Korea and China is both possible and desirable. the Chinese and Koreans know better than anyone else the barbarism of the Japanese. Am I alone nauseated at the sight of Japanese naval vessels flying their battle flag?

SinoSoldier · Jun 15, 2013

Re: Japan's military build-up

mr.bean said:
hey jeff it seems that Japan's JSDMF is way stronger and better fleet than the French navy that you listed in a thread recently. if we look at a nation's GDP and industrial sophistication then it should naturally have a military that reflects that nation's strength. Japan's JSDMF is definetly the 2nd best fleet in the world. china is the only game changer around. if it weren't for china the Japanese will remain 2nd best forever because no nation can surpass it. no wonder these 2 nations don't get along.

Hey, come on now; if the Americans' didn't supply the JMSDF with technology and ships we would know that GDP almost doesn't matter when it comes to military buildups.

It would be unwise to compare the two Japanese and Chinese navies purely based on how many modern air defense destroyers each has. Japan does have a quantity advantage in this regard, but China almost certainly possess a quantitative and technological advantage when it comes to aerial assets, missiles, and production capability. Japan's Atago and Kongo may have a slightly more powerful radar, which is not certain, but the Type 052C and Type 052D will possess a huge advantage in weapons reach and versatility. And not to mention the Type 054A frigates are capable of carrying antisub rockets unlike their Japanese counterparts, which would nicely put China at a ASuW lead.

thunderchief · Jun 15, 2013

Re: Japan's military build-up

Jeff Head said:
I have news for you, Japan is already "militarized." Very strong Air Force, Navy and Army.

Relatively strong navy (but without nuclear component) , average air force and relatively weak army for the country of that size and wealth .

Jeff Head said:
It is probably only second to the US Navy.

No . Behind US , Russia , France , Britain , maybe even India . No nuclear armament , subsonic anti-ship missiles , no naval fighters ....

Jeff Head said:
Apparently China "allowed" that to happen despite your claims.

As I said before , China won't allow Japan to become real threat to China ever again . Watch what will happen if Japan tries to obtain F-35B for its helicopter carriers , nuclear-powered subs or God forbid nuclear weapons .

Jeff Head said:
It is not China's position to "allow" or not "allow" what goes on in Japan, and how they develop their force structure. It would be China's position to stop aggression by Japan against it or its allies.

Yes it is ,an I explained why .

Japan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Jeff Head

General

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General

thunderchief

Senior Member

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King

Jeff Head

General

montyp165

Senior Member

mr.bean

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Surgeon

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SinoSoldier

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thunderchief

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