J-XX Fighter Aircraft

challenge said:

China aerospace still consider very weak,the damage could trace back to cultural revolution.
consider this, during the 1950's China is consider technology at par with japan (or italy),more advance than south korea, (or brazil,spain and south africa) .
20 year later it was completely reverse,there's is little innovation,little investment,worse brain drain.combine this with mao dogmatic extreme form of "classless"policy.

Click to expand...

its not only the cultural revolution or Mao's era, the gap increased dramatically in the 80s when China focused all its effort on economic development rather than military, only in mid 90s China started to pick up the pace of military modernization

I have problems believing a country that just came out of civil war had technology considered on par with the just-beaten empire of Japan. The reason China right now is behind Japan and South Korea (and other regional neighbours) is first of all the tumults you mention with Mao, while South Korea and Japan were pulled out of the mud economically by the US and supported by US military technology. China is slowly, but surely catching up, and does posess capabilities above what other neighbours have (e.g. nuclear ballistic submarines).

That being said, this thread is not about whether or not China copies from other nations or where their technological level is in different sectors. Its about the development of JXX. So stop throwing trash at each other, lads.

sinowarrior said:

its not only the cultural revolution or Mao's era, the gap increased dramatically in the 80s when China focused all its effort on economic development rather than military, only in mid 90s China started to pick up the pace of military modernization

Click to expand...

If you been following or reading chinese newspaper (excluding HK or oversea chinese newspaper) most them blame "gang of four",in reality the main culprit was mao himself.during the early 90's ,Wan-Li,one of the central committee member hold mao responsible for China backwarness.

Maggern said:

I have problems believing a country that just came out of civil war had technology considered on par with the just-beaten empire of Japan. The reason China right now is behind Japan and South Korea (and other regional neighbours) is first of all the tumults you mention with Mao, while South Korea and Japan were pulled out of the mud economically by the US and supported by US military technology. China is slowly, but surely catching up, and does posess capabilities above what other neighbours can (e.g. nuclear ballistic submarines)

Click to expand...

well China did receive some of the top notch weapons during 50s, like T-55, Migs, this gave a rather solid foundation for China to develope its military, also don't forget it did not take USSR that long to develope something on par with Germany

challenge said:

If you been following or reading chinese newspaper (excluding HK or oversea chinese newspaper) most them blame "gang of four",in reality the main culprit was mao himself.during the early 90's ,Wan-Li,one of the central committee member hold mao responsible for China backwarness.

Click to expand...

i am not blaming Mao or gang of four, i am just saying although there is considerable chaos in china at that time, military still received prority, but in 80s, with open door policy etc, quite a lot of military projects are either cancelled or reduced in funds, and this actually increased the gap rather than decreasing it. one good examlpe is Chinese space industry, in the 80s Chinese CZ-2/3 family were on par with European Ariane family, and they were designed in late 70s. however after Deng took power, the funding has been dramatically reduced, and CZ5 although appeared very early in research paper was delayed considerably.

otester said:

The Nazis lost due to their political leaders poor decisions, not their war machines quality, same goes for Rome & the USA.

Click to expand...

Excuses, excuses. How could the Nazis have worse political leadership than Stalin and the Soviet Union?

And please explain what poor decisions the Roman leadership made to cause them to lose against the Germanic tribes.

What good is your supposed technological superiority supposed to be in the face of an adversary with comprehensive military strength and able political leadership?

otester said:

No, that's what the Chinese do, the idea of doing your own designs is that you are bringing new ideas to the table and trying to bring about another technology breakthrough, this also coincides with my Harrier comment, we took a concept turned it into a real thing, the designs China has copied/heavily modified weren't designed from concepts but other peoples real things. This however may not directly apply to every single design, but where this is not found, foreign parts are.

Click to expand...

LOL. What hardware does the UK have that is not derived from the US? Harrier?? :roll: Trident missile? :roll: Challengers? :roll:

At least the French actually try to innovate.

Please look in the mirror first before pointing fingers at others.

otester said:

125mm based on Russian technology, autoloader is an unmodified licensed copy of th T-72 autoloader (IIRC), yes the ammunition is different.

Click to expand...

Oh I see what the game is.... so if a European country takes some prior technology and makes a change to it, then they're innovating because there's something new.... but if China takes a prior technology and makes a change to it, then it's merely a copy because something comes from a foreign source.

Sir, we have had enough of this rubbish you spew.

challenge said:

China aerospace still consider very weak,the damage could trace back to cultural revolution.
consider this, during the 1950's China is consider technology at par with japan (or italy),more advance than south korea, (or brazil,spain and south africa) .
20 year later it was completely reverse,there's is little innovation,little investment,worse brain drain.combine this with mao dogmatic extreme form of "classless"policy.

Click to expand...

Idon't know where you get the idea that Japan or Korea is ahead of China and Please name me 1 inovative Japanese or Korean idea in aerospace I know Japan was one of the first country to introduce AESEA but with the range of 50 km it is almost useless

Please refrain from making sweeeping statement until you can back it up. The reason Japanese air force is more sophisticated because of heavy infusion of American technology and consistent hihg defense spending over last 20 years averaging about 25 Billion dollar when China as recent as 2000 spend only 14 billion dollars Only in the recent years All Japan has to show for is F2 which is big heavy overweight fighter that cost too much and They stopped producing it

and The comment about braindrain is totaly wrong In fact there is reverse brain now 1 in every 3 Chinese student choose to return to China because of better career prospect in China

And korea sofar what they built is T 50 trainer again with Us Enginer and Avionic So tell me where is that superduper Korean Tech here

China worked on the Al Khalids at one point, possibly still does.

Click to expand...

Al Khalid is based off the Chinese Type 85II/90 series... not the T-80.... I'm pretty sure that even Wikipedia says that.

crobato said:

Arjun uses 120mm rifle. Every tank in the world that uses this gun and caliber has licensed that from Germany.

Click to expand...

I was not aware of Germany licensing this gun, are you sure you are not getting mixed up with the Rheinmetall L\44 / L\55?

I would say it is more linked to the 120mm L-30, if any.

Autumn Child said:

Have you ever checked on the Chinese submarine development? What is the new 093/094 based on? where which submarines is it a copy of? And where did they copy the nuclear reactor from? And do you knw where the Yuan class submarine is copied from?

Click to expand...

The original Type 093 design was out dated very quickly, so development was halted, later on the Russians helped the Chinese out, bringing about a sea-worthy submarine.