J-XX Fighter Aircraft

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otester

Guest
You should check out the previous posts about T-99, the ammunition is clearly different, so is the gun.

125mm based on Russian technology, autoloader is an unmodified licensed copy of th T-72 autoloader (IIRC), yes the ammunition is different.

Arjun layout out fits that of a western designed tank, but you keep clamming it is designed from scratch, and yes, Arjun did have plenty of foreign help, ie a foreign engine, same thing for LCA.

Last time I read up on the Arjun it came across that it was a home built project, I will have to read up and get back on that, it wouldn't surprise me though.

For JH-7, you could only points out to a foreign engine, and for J-8II, you could only point out to a russian radar, which they have since replaced.

The J-8 was based on MiG-21 technology, it is basically an enlarged J-7.

So why are you keep throw these contradicting arguments?

Well the point of this thread is the J-XX, I was stating that it will be a copy of something or based on something that is a copy of something and/or include foreign help/foreign hardware.

Also, have you check out the development histroy if J-9 and J-12? Especially for J-9, that clearly shows where the J-10s tailless delta-canard configuration comes from.

Could well have come from the IAI Lavi and J-9.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
125mm based on Russian technology, autoloader is Well the point of this thread is the J-XX, I was stating that it will be a copy of something or based on something that is a copy of something and/or include foreign help/foreign hardware.

Could well have come from the IAI Lavi and J-9.

This the illogical thing I've heard For once will US let China copy JXX ? Or who is going to help with JXX Europe, Russia None of them has 5 Gen fighter You just keep copy thing because you are in denial and stuck your head in the sand
 

peperez

New Member
Korea - Stopped the North from taking the South.

Sorry, Peng Dehuai pushed McArthur to original frontier and kept UN there. Remember, at the beginning of China intervention, US troops were 20 miles far from Chinese frontier.

Vietnam - Won every important battle, South Vietnam lost because the USA had no way to help them due to political changes (election), North Vietnam would not have attacked again if the USA was still interested in keeping South Vietnam intact, if they had it would have been very foolish.

In a guerrillas war win battles have no meaning.

Afghanistan - Taliban removed from power (don't go into current occupation status since all unwelcome occupiers go through this).

Iraq '91/'03 - Completely annihilated the Iraqi army (don't go into current occupation status since all unwelcome occupiers go through this) and removed Saddam from power.

Two embargoed countries with no supplies fighting a ten fold superior airpower.

Although these wars have been against inferior powers and not an equal, they did show that Soviet technology (disregard Afghanistan/Iraq) was inferior.

With a superiority of ten to one is easy to win something.

Pepe
 
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otester

Guest
Sorry, Peng Dehuai pushed McArthur to original frontier and kept UN there. Remember, at the beginning of China intervention, US troops were 20 miles far from Chinese frontier.

They still repelled the Norths invasion and showed that NK alone was no match, as soon as China and the USSR started getting involved, they evened the balance of power, so the armistice was inevitable.
 

Baibar of Jalat

Junior Member
Imperial Japan had a 3 I's policy of Imitating foreign technology, Improving the technology and finally Innovating from what they have learnt.

I think the third world has no option but to copy in a attempt to catch up. Simply everyone copies the best, even American companies copy of each other. Summary China has no other alternative but to losely follow the three I's

Please note. The mod's are not gonna be amused by this digression.
 
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Schumacher

Senior Member
Imperial Japan had a 3 I's policy of Imitating foreign technology, Improving the technology and finally Innovating from what they have learnt.

I think the third world has no option but to copy in a attempt to catch up. Simply everyone copies the best, even American companies copy of each other. Summary China has no other alternative but to losely follow the three I's

Please note. The mod's are not gonna be amused by this digression.

Yup, I'd even say not only Japan but most others out there engaging in defence tech development. If one looks at NATO countries or any other countries within some kind of alliance where there's little restriction on tech cooperation, u see scientists working on joint projects, defence firms freely buying up others or some tech in deals. Will be hard to find any projects totally independently developed by a party.
Origin of any piece of tech is hard to determine even with lawyers/experts working full time on it but I see that doesn't stop some kids to think all they need is some one line claim backed by Wiki to settle the matter. :)
 

sinowarrior

Junior Member
When I read up on the Arjun I was not aware of any foreign input, up until problems were found, I will go and re-read some other sources and get back to you on that.

US hasn't really invented that much at all, Nazi scientists gave them a huge amount of information/hardware which gave the USA a leading edge.

it is stated in that 'beloved wikipedia', The engine and transmission are provided by MTU and Renk respectively.

The LAHAT (Laser Homing Attack or Laser Homing Anti-Tank, also a Hebrew word for incandescence) is a semi-active laser homing low-weight anti-tank guided missile developed since 1992 and manufactured by Israel Aerospace Industries
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
J-8 is not an enlarged J-7, anymore than every airliner in the world are copies or enlarged or smaller versions of each other. You cannot use basic aerodynamic configuration as a basis to think one is a copy of the other, otherwise, there is some build relationship between the Delta Daggers and Darts to the Mirage III. The J-8 does not share the same wing aspect as the J-7 or the MiG-21, and the fuselage proportions to the wings are quite different as well. The plane is twin engined, which means a major structural change and a different intake tunnel design. The current radars of the J-8II are domestic; the Zhuk was a demo for an export model and was never used by the PLAAF for its own. The engines were improved copies from those of the MiG-21MF, the engines of which is actually different from that of the original J-7, however, later copies of the J-8II are using an all new indigenous engine code named Kunlun.

J-10 has the same aerodynamic configuration as the Lavi, but the lines are different if you put the two aircraft over each other on both side views and plan views. Not only is the J-10 longer, but every part of the airframe and wings are non interchangeable between the two along with different sweeps and aspect ratios for the wings and canards, all critical areas in aerodynamics and flight behavior. This one can be verified with actual photos and models of the two aircraft. No matter what people want to believe, the direct evidence of the physicality of the two planes are there and undeniable. This does not mean that the J-10 may have benefited from Israeli and Russian aerodynamic research however.

Arjun uses 120mm rifle. Every tank in the world that uses this gun and caliber has licensed that from Germany.
 

Autumn Child

Junior Member
All I was looking for in this discussion is acceptance that all China produces is copies, I got that acceptance, now it is really pointless discussing anymore.

What a load of BS! Every defense analyst knows that China copies some, not all. No one has accepted your arguments. Try to listen to some of the PLA expert in this forum before trying to assert empty words.

Have you ever checked on the Chinese submarine development? What is the new 093/094 based on? where which submarines is it a copy of? And where did they copy the nuclear reactor from? And do you knw where the Yuan class submarine is copied from?
 

challenge

Banned Idiot
China aerospace still consider very weak,the damage could trace back to cultural revolution.
consider this, during the 1950's China is consider technology at par with japan (or italy),more advance than south korea, (or brazil,spain and south africa) .
20 year later it was completely reverse,there's is little innovation,little investment,worse brain drain.combine this with mao dogmatic extreme form of "classless"policy.
 
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