J-XX Fighter Aircraft

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tphuang

tphuang

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Totoro said:
Is that piece of news online somewhere? In its original form, from its original source, and not a retelling by some newsbite site? I think many people here would be thankful for such a link...
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people were saying it came from CAC's own newspaper or something like that. There appears to be enough credibility in the story. Besides, I've already posted previous stories that implied CAC got the contract. I think this was decided by late last year already, so they must be coming out with a prototype in a couple of years.
 
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Ryz05

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It looks like Sinodefence might be right afterall in predicting the greater likelihood of success with the J-13 by Chengdu, which is an advanced upgrade of the J-10. On the other hand, J-12 by Shenyang is said to be closer to the F-22 in capability. Some concept art can be seen on the website:
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If the Chinese are going after something less capable than the F-22, that might be possible under financial considerations, but maybe the J-10 upgrade or J-13 won't be that much less capable than the J-12. It might also just be that the J-13 is the one that'll be mass produced, like the Type 96, while the more advanced J-12 will be in more limited production like the Type 99, before technology upgrades can be finalized.
 
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mxiong

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Ryz05 said:
It looks like Sinodefence might be right afterall in predicting the greater likelihood of success with the J-13 by Chengdu, which is an advanced upgrade of the J-10. On the other hand, J-12 by Shenyang is said to be closer to the F-22 in capability. Some concept art can be seen on the website:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


If the Chinese are going after something less capable than the F-22, that might be possible under financial considerations, but maybe the J-10 upgrade or J-13 won't be that much less capable than the J-12. It might also just be that the J-13 is the one that'll be mass produced, like the Type 96, while the more advanced J-12 will be in more limited production like the Type 99, before technology upgrades can be finalized.
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No, China won't follow USAF's F-22/F-35 hi-hi combo because she doesn't have the abundant technological and financial resources which US enjoys. So PLAAF's future backbone will be Chengdu J-XX (elite regiments only) + J-10/J-11 (in large number), kind of a 5th/4th Gen. hi-low mix.
 
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Ryz05

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mxiong said:
No, China won't follow USAF's F-22/F-35 hi-hi combo because she doesn't have the abundant technological and financial resources which US enjoys. So PLAAF's future backbone will be Chengdu J-XX (elite regiments only) + J-10/J-11 (in large number), kind of a 5th/4th Gen. hi-low mix.
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I'm not talking about 4th generation fighter jets but the new ones or 5th generation. The current generation that the PLAAF has is the fourth according to the international classification, which groups the J-10 and J-11 with the F-15 and F-18. In the next generation, the J-13 (J-10 upgrade) will rival the F-35 and the J-12 with further upgrades will rival the F-22. It's like the USAF way of fielding F-22 and F-35 with F-18 and F-15.
 
Roger604

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tphuang said:
people were saying it came from CAC's own newspaper or something like that. There appears to be enough credibility in the story. Besides, I've already posted previous stories that implied CAC got the contract. I think this was decided by late last year already, so they must be coming out with a prototype in a couple of years.
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Yes the topic appears on page 35 of this thread. CAC won the competition based on paper designs and I guess the next step would be to build a prototype.

Now, 7 months later, this news talks about full scale models of both the CAC and SAC fighters being compared shows up. It appears that the competition was not quite over yet. I wonder how close these full scale models are to being some sort of work-in-progress prototype.

At this quick pace, a prototype will be flying by 2010/2011 and it should be deployed by 2013/2014.
 
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Totoro

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Um, IF a prototype flies by 2011, there is absolutely no guarantee it will be deployed by 2014. Jf-17, granted, took just 4-5 years from prototype flight to (very) limited deployment but that program is way way less complex than jxx will be. J-10 flew in 1996. and it took it 7 years to be deployed in even smallest of numbers. And it was still less complex than jxx will be. Better comparison may be JSF, which took from the maiden flight of the prototype to f-35 in service will take 11 years. Now, sure, there was politics involved, perhaps unsure funding, it could've slowed it down... but realistically, i don't see deployment before 2018, if first flight is achieved in, say, 2011. 7-8 years, minimum, and even that would set a precedant. for full operational capability we'd have to add several more years.
 
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ludasmatyi

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According to the picture from Sinodefence.com, I think the design of J-13 was quite similar to Yakovlev MFI except the number of engines. Of course the design might be changed a lot now. Can't wait to see the real one.
BTW, Is it true that Chinese are still looking for a chance to participate the PAK-FA project?
 
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King_Comm

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ludasmatyi said:
Is it true that Chinese are still looking for a chance to participate the PAK-FA project? Without the help from Russian or Israel, it is quite a challenge for China to finish a 5th generation fighter by itself.
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No, PAK-AF is a huge rip off, basically the Russians are just looking for people to fund the project, there will be very little technology transfer. From what I have heard, even India is thinking about pulling out.
 
PrOeLiTeZ

PrOeLiTeZ

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maybe something like this is more ideal: fronts J-11, mids J-10, homedefence J-7, bombers JH-7, and if the front and mid protection fails then elite units are sent in J-XX pilots...as for the mix its more of a 3-4th generation mix...the whole airforce is gonna shrink so J-10/11 wont be in that large of numbers as you would hope...remember pla always finds ways of exploiting weakness and doesn't go head to head....meaning they're most likely not gonna produce something to the level of F-22 to counter an F-22
 
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alopes

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Totoro said:
Um, IF a prototype flies by 2011, there is absolutely no guarantee it will be deployed by 2014. Jf-17, granted, took just 4-5 years from prototype flight to (very) limited deployment but that program is way way less complex than jxx will be. J-10 flew in 1996. and it took it 7 years to be deployed in even smallest of numbers. And it was still less complex than jxx will be. Better comparison may be JSF, which took from the maiden flight of the prototype to f-35 in service will take 11 years. Now, sure, there was politics involved, perhaps unsure funding, it could've slowed it down... but realistically, i don't see deployment before 2018, if first flight is achieved in, say, 2011. 7-8 years, minimum, and even that would set a precedant. for full operational capability we'd have to add several more years.
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When looking at this time spam for turning a new plane operational, it seems logical to understand why they would choose Chengdu J-10 to J-13 improvement instead of a full revolutionary design.
Much like the Su-35BM and Pak-FA evolution thread.

The difference is that China have more engineers, young engineers, more money and more industrial growth capacity.
While Russian engineers are getting old and most of their skilled personal seek better paid jobs abroad.
 
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