J-XX Fighter Aircraft

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kw64

Junior Member
Re: J-xx

Definitely not the second. China's economy is more than twice the size of Russia's.

There are other possibilities, however. Even if the Chinese think the Russians have better tech, they might feel that developing their own R&D capabilities is more important in the long term than having the absolute best possible fighter.

... Ami.

The size of economy does not exactly translates to the ability to develop advance fighters. China's capability to develop a usable engine for its 5th gen fighter is highly questionable. Also, China does not have privatized military industries which may be a fatal weakness.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Re: J-xx

If China followed along with all the so-called experts say, China would be existing in a dire situation. The fact is the "experts" have always said China can't do this... China can't do that... and they've been majority of the time wrong. Really with all the "expert" pessimism about China, why is everyone so alarmed about the future? What's the big deal about the expert estimated "not for another ten years" ASAT capability then?
 

Indianfighter

Junior Member
Re: J-xx

Actually, in the same manner, Chinese military personnel probably have much better access to classified foreign technology or information about its capabilities than you ever will.

So yes, while, you may be stuck in your own little corner oblivious to the JSF's capabilities and technology, the Chinese military-industrial complex is most likely not.
In exactly the same way, the US military industrial complex would also have as much access and depth of knowledge of the J-XX, because secrecy or access to the other side thereof, in this case atleast is not a unilateral effort and privilege.

To preempt any asinine counterarguments, knowing the technology or even the science behind it doesn't necessitate that a country or organization has the ability to successfully integrate into its weapon systems.

Half of the problem of transitioning from R&D and prototypes to full production is having the infrastructure in place to mass manufacture the required components and integrate it into weapon systems. China could possess the full set of schematics for the B-2 along with the processes for manufacturing the synthetic materials and it would still take time to produce a prototype.
When you mention "knowing the science behind it", and taking into account the context of espionage at the basest level, it invariably involves the technology to manufacture the desired component(s). Examples are manufacture of AESA radars' gallium arsenide, machinery to integrate all the components, source codes, etc.
 

Londo Molari

Junior Member
Re: J-xx

There are other possibilities, however. Even if the Chinese think the Russians have better tech, they might feel that developing their own R&D capabilities is more important in the long term than having the absolute best possible fighter.
I agree with that. Also, perhaps China wants their 5th gen fighter optimized for a different role than Russia, and this way neither side has to compromise.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Re: J-xx

This was just posted on CDF. Supposedly the broadcast says the "J-XX" will come out within 5-7 years.
 
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mxiong

Junior Member
Re: J-xx

What I heard is:

Chengdu will get the design contract, but manufacturing takes place in both Chengdu and Shenyang.

J-xx is purely made for air-superiority against F-22A, with a highly unconventional aerodynamic airframe. Sophisticated
ground attack capability is never considered.

Possible timeline for J-xx is 2012 - prototype maiden flight, 2015 - small batch production and field evaluation, 2017 - design certification and serial production, 2020 - achieving IOC.
 
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Roger604

Senior Member
Re: J-xx

^ Well that claim from Phoenix TV show is definitely an authoritative statement. The folks on that show are very reliable. J-XX will fly by 2012. I think all those steps... small batch production, etc... can be compressed into 3 years if necessary. And I believe the PLA senses an urgent need for J-XX. I think the first J-XX squadrons will enter service in 2015. If, as previously claimed, that the J-XX will cost less than the F-35, then it can be deployed in the high hundreds and be a formidable spearhead of the PLAAF.
 

mxiong

Junior Member
Re: J-xx

^ Well that claim from Phoenix TV show is definitely an authoritative statement. The folks on that show are very reliable. J-XX will fly by 2012. I think all those steps... small batch production, etc... can be compressed into 3 years if necessary. And I believe the PLA senses an urgent need for J-XX. I think the first J-XX squadrons will enter service in 2015. If, as previously claimed, that the J-XX will cost less than the F-35, then it can be deployed in the high hundreds and be a formidable spearhead of the PLAAF.
Yeah, my timeline is quite conservative. If tension in Taiwan Strait arises, the development of J-xx could be accelerated accordingly.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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Registered Member
Re: J-xx

I'm guessing this is an related article to J-xx. Basically, just saying that China would rather develop its own plane + engine than work with the Russians. Clearly, China wants a plane built to its own requirements rather than something with Russian requirements.
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MOSCOW. (Yury Zaitsev for RIA Novosti) - Although the Russian Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29 Fulcrum air-superiority fighter with a vectored-thrust engine is currently stealing the limelight at the Dubai Air Show 2007, this warplane will become obsolete in the foreseeable future.

Fifth-generation fighters featuring entirely new engineering solutions will form the mainstay of national air forces in the 21st century.

On November 15, Russia's Sukhoi Military Aviation Complex and the Indian Defense Ministry launched a new round of talks on developing a fifth-generation fighter.

On October 18, Russian President Vladimir Putin told a televised news conference that Moscow would start developing such warplanes by 2015. Before that, First Deputy Prime Minister and former Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said a prototype fifth-generation fighter would perform its maiden flight in 2009, and that serial production would commence in early 2010. But most experts were not so optimistic and predicted that the first warplane in this category would not appear before 2012-2014, which is supported by President Putin's statement.

However, the world's first fifth-generation fighter, the prototype US F-22 Raptor fighter, first took off on September 7, 1997. Two weeks later, Russia's Sukhoi Su-37 Berkut, another prototype fifth-generation fighter, flew for the first time.

Production versions of the F-22 Raptor and the US-EU F-35 Joint Strike Fighter are currently available. The latter, which is referred to as a generation five-plus fighter, seems to out-perform the former.

Unfortunately, Russia has so far failed to master production of the purely experimental Su-37, built by Sukhoi at its own expense. Nevertheless, the plane's lay-out makes it possible to streamline various engineering solutions under the Advanced Tactical Aircraft (PAK FA) program.

The United States and Europe spent over $20 billion on the F-35 JSF program. Therefore, experts believe that Russia should team up with a foreign partner in order to develop a fifth-generation fighter. It will take $600-800 million to design the engine, the most expensive element, and another $1.5 billion to launch serial production.

Moscow considered China and India to be the best partners. However, Beijing prefers to develop its own aircraft engines, and India is more interested in state-of-the-art designing methods and does not want to manufacture "ready-made" planes.

Russia and India started negotiating on the joint fifth-generation fighter program in 2003. New Delhi insisted that the new plane be developed from scratch. Moscow was not very happy about this because it implied another highly expensive project.

Apart from outstanding achievements, bilateral military-technical co-operation has been marked by major setbacks and even conflicts. And this explains why it took India so long to get involved in the new fighter program.

Both countries have faced serious problems such as upgrading the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier. Under a bilateral contract, the Indian Navy was to have received the warship in 2008. However, the Admiral Gorshkov will only conduct its trial run from 2010 to 2012.

Moreover, Russian bureaucrats have failed to approve the preparatory documents of the Multi-Role Transport Aircraft (MTA) project during last two years and have nearly stopped it. New Delhi has already said that it could withdraw from the project and develop the MTA together with Brazil or the EU.

Tatyana Shaumyan, head of the Centre of Indian Research at the Russian Academy of Sciences' Institute of Oriental Studies, said Russian red tape, the inadequate fulfillment of contracts and delayed shipments had impaired many aspects of bilateral relations. This is why India is trying to protect itself from such negative developments.

For instance, the national air force floated a global tender for 126 combat jets worth $10 billion. Eighteen of the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) will be purchased in flyaway condition and the remaining 108 manufactured in the country under a transfer of technology (TOT) agreement with the chosen supplier.

The 211-page request for proposal (RFP) has been sent to the manufacturers of six aircraft: the U.S. F-16 and F-18 Super Hornet, the Swedish Gripen, the French Rafale, the Russian MiG-35 and a European consortium's Eurofighter.

Indian engineers and technicians who know all about the Russian aircraft production process will quickly master the relevant technologies.

The Indian leadership seemed inclined to co-operate with the United States and to obtain F-35 JSF know-how. However, Washington, which refuses to share technologies even with its closest allies, offered some rather harsh terms to New Delhi.

This October, Russia and India agreed to jointly develop the fifth-generation fighter and to manufacture it at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and Sukhoi Military Aviation Complex plants.

India's Defense Minister A. K. Antony said the agreement heralded a new stage in bilateral co-operation aiming to develop new-generation weapons and military equipment. This will become one of the most ambitious Russian-Indian military programs.

The fifth-generation fighter must retain in-flight stability and control at 90-degree-plus angles of attack. The United States, which faced similar problems, eventually preferred Stealth characteristics and supersonic cruise speeds to super-agility.

The future Russian-Indian warplane would probably out-maneuver any other similar aircraft because the F-22's maneuverability is similar to that of the revamped Su-27 Flanker featuring vectored-thrust engines. This Russian plane features AL-37-FU engines with round rotatable nozzles and can attain supersonic cruise speeds. Its combat efficiency has been enhanced because the Su-27 can bank sharply at high angular speeds and along short trajectories in every plane.

In addition, the fifth-generation fighter will be fitted with advanced avionics, long-range weapons and other radio-electronic equipment for hitting any conceivable target. The Indian electronics industry will provide an invaluable contribution to developing automated electronic counter-measures (ECM) systems, secure data-exchange networks and fire-control systems for long-range tactical missions.
 

zyun8288

Junior Member
Re: J-xx

So, can we now safely say "2010 entering service" is impossible?

Now let's move to 2015, I think it's a possible date for starting user trial.
But for entering service, which means at least one regiment established, 2015 is too optimistic. If 2012 is the maiden flight date (that's the date I do believe), China needs to finish off all testings in 2 years then produce another regiment of JXX in 1 year.
 
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