J-XX Fighter Aircraft

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challenge

Banned Idiot
Re: J-xx

zyun8288 said:
To help non-chinese forumites to understand what Roger just posted, here's a translation of 3 lines chinese texts that are related to JXX

1. Next generation fighter project plan has been finalised, based on a 611's aero dynamic design proposal, 601 and 611 work together for the design, SAC is responsible for prototypes and mass production.

2. 611 has several J10 upgrade plans, the most advanced one is required to counter F35

3. SAC has lost on the 4th gen project, they are crying. CAC got the work on avionics and FBW. So they have abandoned the twin engine J10 and concentrate on the 4th gen project.
Click to expand...

other important area was high thrust jet engine.there's mentioning of WS-15,Ws-16 and WS-17.
WS-15 report associate with ARJ engine,during 2005 Beijing domestic aerospace exhibition.aside from WS-10 engine.one unidentified poster appear in the back ground. appear to be a high bypass torbofan,the engine appear to be 25,000~30,000 lbs thrust ,the engine likely associate with ARJ commercial jet.
 
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C

challenge

Banned Idiot
Re: J-xx

zyun8288 said:
To help non-chinese forumites to understand what Roger just posted, here's a translation of 3 lines chinese texts that are related to JXX

1. Next generation fighter project plan has been finalised, based on a 611's aero dynamic design proposal, 601 and 611 work together for the design, SAC is responsible for prototypes and mass production.

2. 611 has several J10 upgrade plans, the most advanced one is required to counter F35

3. SAC has lost on the 4th gen project, they are crying. CAC got the work on avionics and FBW. So they have abandoned the twin engine J10 and concentrate on the 4th gen project.
Click to expand...

other important area was high thrust jet engine.there's mentioning of WS-15,Ws-16 and WS-17.
WS-15 report associate with ARJ engine,during 2005 Beijing domestic aerospace exhibition.aside from WS-10 engine.one unidentified engine appear in the back ground.high bypass torbofan,the engine appear to be 25,000~30,000 lbs thrust ,the engine likely associate with ARJ commercial jet.
 
Roger604

Roger604

Senior Member
Re: J-xx

tphuang said:
The modified J-10 is not expected to be as good as F-35, but just be able to defend against F-35 on Chinese soil
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If this modified J-10 is the standard J-10 plus TVC and improved avionics, only then would it make sense.

I suppose such an aircraft could defend against F-35 on Chinese soil. It would be on par with Eurofighter.

But whatever design CAC had for a stealth airframe "J-10", that is definitely off the table now. This way it can devote some resources to complete the evolution of J-10 to its final incarnation, and put the rest into bringing a 5th generation J-XX into being.

This is definitely the most logical path to take if the objective is to get a stealth airframe aircraft into service as soon as possible.
 
Indianfighter

Indianfighter

Junior Member
Re: J-xx

Roger604 said:
If this modified J-10 is the standard J-10 plus TVC and improved avionics, only then would it make sense.

I suppose such an aircraft could defend against F-35 on Chinese soil. It would be on par with Eurofighter.
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In order to be at par with Eurofighter, the J-10 would have to have a >70% proportion of composites in its airframe, by surface area. Composites boost stealth significantly.

Roger604 said:
But whatever design CAC had for a stealth airframe "J-10", that is definitely off the table now. This way it can devote some resources to complete the evolution of J-10 to its final incarnation, and put the rest into bringing a 5th generation J-XX into being.

This is definitely the most logical path to take if the objective is to get a stealth airframe aircraft into service as soon as possible.
Click to expand...
I don't agree. Except in China and India, globally this is not the practice that has been (or is being) followed. None of US and Russian 5G projects are incremental improvements of older designs. The JSF and PAK-FA are cases in point, which pioneered new design features (and invariably being visually copied by China and India) like a triangular wing planform, internal bomb-bays, and plasma stealth. Also, any 5G airplane is unlikely to have canards because it is the main culprit in compromising stealth.
 
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Roger604

Roger604

Senior Member
Re: J-xx

Indianfighter said:
In order to be at par with Eurofighter, the J-10 would have to have a >70% proportion of composites in its airframe, by surface area. Composites boost stealth significantly.
Click to expand...

Huh? Where did you get the 70% figure? Eurofighter is not a stealth aircraft. What is your point in talking about composites? Are you implying that PLA doesn't use composites?

Indianfighter said:
I don't agree. Except in China and India, globally this is not the practice that has been (or is being) followed.
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India has a practice of doing.... what? I don't even know what project you can refer to.

Indianfighter said:
None of US and Russian 5G projects are incremental improvements of older designs. The JSF and PAK-FA are cases in point, which pioneered new design features (and invariably being visually copied by China and India) like a triangular wing planform, internal bomb-bays, and plasma stealth.
Click to expand...

The "modified J-10" was never really a modified J-10. The PLA has a practice of understating its new projects. If it was Russia, for example, it would have been J-30 by now ;)

I don't know why you're bringing up PAK-FA. You don't know anything about the project, and neither do I. Plasma stealth? C'mon!

Indianfighter said:
Also, any 5G airplane is unlikely to have canards because it is the main culprit in compromising stealth.
Click to expand...

That's the conventional wisdom, but PLA seems to be going against it. Look at the concept models of Anjian / Anying, for example.
 
Deino

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Re: J-xx

:confused::confused:

央视泄密：四代战机最近可能已经试飞 一架飞机耗资超过亿

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央视泄密: 四代战机最近可能已经试飞


云外飞侠 发表于 2007-11-9 15:54



晚上10多，看中央新闻频道专访中国第一试飞员李中华，他谈到最近试飞成功的一架飞机耗资超过一亿，中国也仅此一台，并且超过su27 30su的性能，虽然在试飞过程中有过惊心动魄的7秒，最后他说中国在飞行事故中在全世界是最低的，并且要相信国内飞机制造的技术，这架飞机应该属于第四代战机。


Anyone can help with a better translation than Altavista ??

Deino
 
K

kickars

Junior Member
Re: J-xx

Deino said:
:confused::confused:

央视泄密：四代战机最近可能已经试飞 一架飞机耗资超过亿

----

央视泄密: 四代战机最近可能已经试飞


云外飞侠 发表于 2007-11-9 15:54



晚上10多，看中央新闻频道专访中国第一试飞员李中华，他谈到最近试飞成功的一架飞机耗资超过一亿，中国也仅此一台，并且超过su27 30su的性能，虽然在试飞过程中有过惊心动魄的7秒，最后他说中国在飞行事故中在全世界是最低的，并且要相信国内飞机制造的技术，这架飞机应该属于第四代战机。


Anyone can help with a better translation than Altavista ??

Deino
Click to expand...

Basically it was saying that on the 10 o'clock CCTV news during an interview with a PLAAF's top test pilot (Zhonghua Li), he said that he just successfully finished a test fight, in which the aircraft costs over 100 million RMB. And China has only one of this aircraft at the moment. Moreover, he also claims it's superior than Su-27s and Su-30s. However there was a 7 seconds of some kind of 'losing control' during the flight. So from this interview the author concludes the aircraft should be the first ever PLAAF's 4th gen fighter.

100 million RMB may not seem a lot by western military standard. But in China that sort of money could really build a brand new military test aircraft. Whether it's a 4th gen fighter or not, I'm not sure. But again the test pilot compared it to Su-27/30s. So it must be either a fighter or a striker.
 
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kickars

Junior Member
Re: J-xx

Oh well, after some searching, this so called 100mil 4th gen aircraft is just the new version of K-8 trainer called K-8V. So I guess 100mil can build you a new aircraft in China, but just not a brand new 4th gen.

But what I can't understand is that why did the test pilot compare a K-8 to Su-27/30s???
 
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