J-20... The New Generation Fighter

Re: Latest picture in higher resolution (after my rotation)

Ambivalent said:

The vertical tail is an obvious CG. Such a configuration would not be stable. In fact, I doubt it is structurally feasible. And why? The junction of the moving tail and the root is far from stealthy, and that root will create all sorts of turbulence any time the vertical tail is displaced away from center.

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It might well be that the vertical tails are only moved during take off and landing, i.e. at low speed and when stealth is not relevant.

Re: New Generation Fighter

bladerunner said:

Geez think about it man What do you think might happen if the Russians ... ...

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I had been watching you over the years.
I am simply just stating the fact.
You are NOT an expert on Military Hardware or Nation Building by any stretch of imagination.
OTOH, we all realize that you are the Bonafide Champion on getting the social welfare in the Kiwi land.

Stick with things that you know and understand, such as --- how to be the best social welfare recipient in Xin Xi Lan.

Time and time again, you had been exhibiting retarded thinking.
Bringing a net negative contribution to this forum.
Otherwise just read the thread and be quiet, there is no need to post any idiot and malicious thinking for the whole planet to see.


NOTE:
This is not a flame. It is simply a friendly suggestion.
This will be my last post on this OFF topic issue of Retarded Thinking.
There will be no back and forth reply to hijack this thread.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Spoiler56 said:

Thanks RedSky! But I still have no idea as to what the SIN-93 looks like. I know that Xian has in the works something referred to as "Flying Leopard III," is that what Challenge was referring to I wonder? Also at Cheng Fei (Chengdu Aircraft Company) there are also reports of a much improved J-10 that has also been carrying out taxi trials, as well as the J-20 trials. The improved J-10 is an improvement of the J-10B, according to the rumors.

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Take Challenge's posts with a massive spoonful of salt.

Re: New Generation Fighter

pugachev_diver said:

that picture was very likely photoshopped, looks really real, probably done by some pro. i got this feeling because PLAAF tradition is to keep the body yellow until formally entering service. Even if this was formally painted, it shouldve have been the common grayish colour used by the PLAAF, the one we see in the picture looks almost like the jak series soviet planes from the 70's.
the biggest reason that i say this is a fake is because i have watched a chinese military show before, the analyst said clearly that china would do it similar to what the russians did, which they would do the 3rd gen, 3.5, then finally into the 4th generation fighter, instead of the american way, jumping directly from 3rd generation into the radical revolutionary f-22. this guy was a professor of the chinese defense academy, an ex-sailor, probably also does analysis for the pla as well. so he is very credible

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And last year there was also a PLAAF general who said China would be very bringing out its 4th generation fighter "very soon" and that it woudl be a true 4th (or 5th if you're western) gen fighter... PLAAF general on CCTV>random unquoted professor.

For all doubters -- do yourself a favour and just believe it this time, you'll save yourself a lot of angst later. K thanks bye.

Re: New Generation Fighter

challenge said:

by standard,this aircraft was to large for fighter aircraft,my estimate to be 20% bigger than F-22,the first thing come into my mind was very large jet fighter/bomber such as A-5 vigilant and TU-28 "fiddler" interceptor,both are consider dissappointment and short service life,before end up in scrap yard....
But I remain puzzle by the size,until more information is release,one can not jump into conclusion.

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J20 has nothing to do with A-5 and TU-28 in terms of design and role, f22 is larger f35, su27 is larger than mig29, f15 is larger than f16, size alone is not an indication of how well an aircraft can perform.

Re: New Generation Fighter

bladerunner said:

Heres a section doing the rounds on various forums.

Note not all is posted because of copyright infringements


Jane's has learnt that China is using Russian-sourced -117S engines (a heavily modified AL-31F) to power its fifth-generation design - at least as far as prototype and development aircraft are concerned. This engine powers Russia's own fifth-generation fighter, the Sukhoi T-50. Despite attempts to replicate previous generations of Russian fighter engines for its own aircraft, China's industry has failed to do so reliably. Its dependence on foreign technology, and specifically Russian engines, particularly as it embarks on its next generation of designs is an embarrassment for China's designers and a major obstacle to building a truly indigenous military aircraft industry. Russia is now dealing with a Chinese request to acquire an unknown number of -117S engines upon which Chengdu will rely for some time to come.
Military training

Date Posted: 20-Dec-2010

Jane's Defence Weekly
Window on China

Robert Hewson, Jane's Air-Launched Weapons Editor, London

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JDW is actually losing credibility with almost each article on the PLA. If Russia has sold 117S engines they'd be parading it around all over the place. They're even saying China's going to buy the Su-35 when nothing of the sort of news has come from the Chiense side.

While engines are a problem, I wouldn't use the Russians as a source of information. They're probably the last people I'd go to on the PLA (and espicially PLAAF).

Re: New Generation Fighter

dingyibvs said:

Thanks maya, your contribution is always welcome. I've read some rumors about it completing high altitude testing, do you know if there's any truth to that?

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progress Not that fast

Re: New Generation Fighter

maya said:

progress Not that fast

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Thanks!

China's J-20 stealth fighter (two different looks)


J-20 Chinese stealth fighter side-view


J-20 Chinese stealth fighter from another angle

Re: Latest J-20 picture rotated for ease of viewing

siegecrossbow said:

Wow this is the clearest picture by far. I wonder how close the guy got to the plane.

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Digital zoom lol?

Ambivalent said:

The vertical tail is an obvious CG. Such a configuration would not be stable. In fact, I doubt it is structurally feasible. And why? The junction of the moving tail and the root is far from stealthy, and that root will create all sorts of turbulence any time the vertical tail is displaced away from center.

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I agree, the all moving tail "junction" probably isn't very stealthy, but I also don't think they are CGs.
Either the radar reflection it is minimal and they have the tails like that for a reason, or someone's purposefully gone to edit the tails and leave the rest for some reason.

I'm going for the former idea, myself.

no_name said:

The F-117 also have dark paint, could the colour scheme of the J-xx have been derived from the material used on the F-117, one of which was shot down over serbia?

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No offence, but that's a very weak argument. I can say that the J-10B prototype's paint is sort of the same colour as the F-22's so it must have some RAM which is similar to the F-22's...

raul said:

Which institution is working on the WS15? still SAC? Probably should let CAC take care of this WS15, they seem able to deliver whatever they are undertaking. Sichuan folks are known to have the spirit of working extra hard and overcoming hardship.

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Nah I think it's XAC who are heading WS-15 (I can say with certainty it isn't shenyang liming. With the whole Ws-10 fiasco... eurgh)

MwRYum said:

Man, I'm looking at a lot of members here sounds like some fanatical fanboys...it's completely irrelevant as to the pics and the existence of the J-xx/J-20 project - to go by the Chinese official R&D policy, it's beyond doubt that it is under way, but that has no relation to the recent pics...they smell too much like doctored stuff by all aspect.

Clinging to bunch of low-res PS pics and claim J-20 exist is like...what those UFO nut-jobs been doing all these years. If you want to behave like matured and educated enthusiasts, unlike those retarded fanboys I've seen flooding the China/Taiwan net-space, then wait and see till there're more creditable pics available.

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I'm all for being realistic and healthy scepticism (and I despise unrealistic fanboys) but your argument is simply that "oh they seem like PS, and they're blurry therefore they're fake". Most people here have seen dozens, hundreds of PSes of the J-XX, We won't all be changing our views on these pictures if we didn't have a reason -- BBS chatter, multiple photos from multiple angles, chatter from reputable sources, PLAAF general last year saying the 4th gen fighter would be coming out "very soon"...

(Also a good proportion of people here joined SDF just to wait for news of the J-XX (myself included) and we've waited years for this thing to come out. We won't be dumbing ourselves down to some second grade photoshop just to slake our thirst after so many years of holding out against fanboy dreams.)

nameless said:

J20 has nothing to do with A-5 and TU-28 in terms of design and role, f22 is larger f35, su27 is larger than mig29, f15 is larger than f16, size alone is not an indication of how well an aircraft can perform.

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Dude, ignore challenge >_>