J-20... The New Generation Fighter

Re: New Generation Fighter

bd popeye said:

Wait a minute!! How is this aircraft the Raptors peer?

Riddle me this Batman!

What sort of engines does it have? Giving the fact the long development of the WS-10.. How fast is it? What is it's rate of climb? Does it have sawtooth leading edges? Is it truly stealthy? What is it's weapons load? Does it have a bomb bay? If not how many external hard points does it have? What's the electronic package? Give me the facts!

The USAF has 168 F-22s in operation.. and is building 19 more. How many J-20s does China have? Just askin'..

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Currently it obviously isn't comparable to the F-22, just like how currently the PAK FA isn't, both are still in development.
This plane will be using WS-15, which will allow it to supercruise.
Yes it does have sawtooth edges.
We don't know if it's truly stealthy I suppose, but if you compare it to PAK FA and F-35 it seems up there. Apart from the engine nozzles, the ventral fins and the wing actuators it looks quite stealthy.
We don't know its weapons load but should be at least comparable to F-22 simlpy due to its sheer size.
Yes it must have a bomb bay (internal weapons bay) -- just look at it..
The electronics will definitely consist of an AESA radar -- not sure what kind of datlinks and what EO sensors it may have though.

Subedei said:

Is it typical for a test-platform to looks so much like a finished product?

I'm both impressed, and somewhat intrigued, by the differences in appearance between these first pics of the J-20 and those of the T-50. There seem to be no visual indicators of construction on the J-20 at all.

Could this simply be an expression of China's growing pride, or of Russia's declining pride?

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The ATF and JSF prototypes all looked like finished products -- I feel CAC is just becoming more professional with every project, so why not make the prototypes look good?

I noticed that the original prototype J-10 have number 1001 on it, could the first two be designation numbers and 01 means first plane. By this logic this new plane we're seeing may really be designated J-20 since it has serial number 2001.



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no_name said:

I noticed that the original prototype J-10 have number 1001 on it, could the first two be designation numbers and 01 means first plane. By this logic this new plane we're seeing may really be designated J-20 since it has serial number 2001.

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Lol yeah we came to that conclusion a few weeks back, when it was rumored the prototype was designated 2001.

I know this pic has been posted before, but Bltzio just reposted it elsewhere and I just noticed that the outline of the plane looks a LOT like the real thing. Perhaps this was the first leak?

Re: New Generation Fighter

ztz99g said:

OMG. Maybe you can tell me how ANY of what you just posted leads to the conclusion that the J-20 meets or exceeds the capability of the F-22. In fact NONE of what you just posted can support such a claim. I do not claim that the J-20 cannot (theoretically) match the F-22, rather that we know next to nothing about it and therefore cannot make any substantive predictions about its effectiveness vis-a-vis the F-22. The only people who think my position is unreasonable are the internet fanboy fantasizers on this forum and others who believe with zero evidence that this thing is ready to sweep the F-22 from the sky. Don't get ahead of yourself. Wait for more info before making any more grandiose and unsupported claims.

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This plane isn't designed to fight with the F-22. Chinese people likes to think outside of the box and use unorthodox methods to neutralise its threats or targets. Judging by its design and sheer size in comparison to the F-22, this is more of a long range Air-Ground attack plane with stealth capabilities that can also survey the air-land-sea within its radius.
It is also likely to have more fuel and carries more payload than the F-22 which is the smaller of the two fighters.

The F-22 has a short combat radius and needs an air base to operate on. The J-20 is most likely something that is used to locate and co-ordinate attacks on carrier groups as well as hitting targets such as naval and air bases. This is going to give the Chinese a huge boost on their anti access warfare strategy.

The F-22 has a short combat radius and needs an air base to operate on. The J-20 is most likely something that is used to locate and co-ordinate attacks on carrier groups as well as hitting targets such as naval and air bases. This is going to give the Chinese a huge boost on their anti access warfare strategy.

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Ahh..Got a question for you. When was the last time China attacked a moving target at sea?? Any attack on the targets you describe will not be easy.

These are the performance statistics for an F-22.

Performance

* Maximum speed:
At altitude: Mach 2.25 (1,500 mph, 2,410 km/h)
Supercruise: Mach 1.82 (1,220 mph, 1,963 km/h)
* Range: >1,600 nmi (1,840 mi, 2,960 km) with 2 external fuel tanks
* Combat radius: 410 nmi (471 mi, 759 km)
* Ferry range: 2,000 mi (1,738 nmi, 3,219 km)
* Service ceiling: 65,000 ft (19,812 m)
* Wing loading: 77 lb/ft² (375 kg/m²)
* Thrust/weight: 1.08 (1.26 with loaded weight & 50% fuel)
* Maximum design g-load: -3.0/+9.0 g

I really do wish the PLA was not so secretive. I'd love to know the facts and figures of the "J-20"

Re: New Generation Fighter

SNSD said:

This plane isn't designed to fight with the F-22. Chinese people likes to think outside of the box and use unorthodox methods to neutralise its threats or targets. Judging by its design and sheer size in comparison to the F-22, this is more of a long range Air-Ground attack plane with stealth capabilities that can also survey the air-land-sea within its radius.
It is also likely to have more fuel and carries more payload than the F-22 which is the smaller of the two fighters.

The F-22 has a short combat radius and needs an air base to operate on. The J-20 is most likely something that is used to locate and co-ordinate attacks on carrier groups as well as hitting targets such as naval and air bases. This is going to give the Chinese a huge boost on their anti access warfare strategy.

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Sheer size as in around the size of the F-22 and the T-50?

Seriously, where the hell do people get that it's a gigantic plane? I've been trying to convince people on various forums that it's a normal, 19-21m sized plane for days, but to little avail. It really confounds me to no end how all these aviation enthusiasts, even someone like Bill Sweetman, can look at this obviously normal sized plane and say it's gigantic. How hard is it to look at a side view of say the Su-27 with people around it and compare? How hard is it to get a ruler out and roughly compare it to people's or trucks' sizes? Why do you even register on a forum like this when you aren't even willing to do this little amount of homework?

EDIT: BTW, I didn't mean to pick on you. I'm just a bit frustrated reading about this plane's "large" size everywhere I go.

New pic

bd popeye said:

Ahh..Got a question for you. When was the last time China attacked a moving target at sea?? Any attack on the targets you describe will not be easy.

These are the performance statistics for an F-22.

Performance

* Maximum speed:
At altitude: Mach 2.25 (1,500 mph, 2,410 km/h)
Supercruise: Mach 1.82 (1,220 mph, 1,963 km/h)
* Range: >1,600 nmi (1,840 mi, 2,960 km) with 2 external fuel tanks
* Combat radius: 410 nmi (471 mi, 759 km)
* Ferry range: 2,000 mi (1,738 nmi, 3,219 km)
* Service ceiling: 65,000 ft (19,812 m)
* Wing loading: 77 lb/ft² (375 kg/m²)
* Thrust/weight: 1.08 (1.26 with loaded weight & 50% fuel)
* Maximum design g-load: -3.0/+9.0 g

I really do wish the PLA was not so secretive. I'd love to know the facts and figures of the "J-20"

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Do you believe any of those stats other than size-related ones(e.g. length, wing-loading area, etc.)? I don't. You'd served in the USN for quite a while, you should know full well just how accurate these public domain data are, especially on cutting edge platforms like the F-22.