J-20... The New Generation Fighter

Re: New Generation Fighter

Quickie said:

Problem is the planes could be at a different distances from the truck.
The ladder to the cockpit can be used as a measure too assuming they used the same type of ladder.

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Even so, the difference in distance won't be big, so we can reasonably guess that it's around 19-20 meters long.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Possibly the location of the gun (a 30-mm, single barrel type) on the underside of the port side (bottom)

Re: New Generation Fighter

SampanViking said:

This notion of a J-20 controlling a large number of UACV's is interesting, but is it really feasible to ask the pilot of a one man fighter to distract himself away from operating his own aircraft to such a degree?

If I was driving down the motorway (Interstate to you guys stateside), I would not want to be worrying about controlling a dozen or so radio controlled cars while I tried to overtake dancing HGV's in the fast lane.

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I think controlling potential UCAVs will be more like playing a real time strategy game than controlling radio controlled cars. By the time UCAVs come into service at that time they will be autonomous enough to do most of the flying themselves.

And the J-20's flying will also mostly be done by the avionics. Also keep in mind any man-in-the-loop controlling the UCAVs won't be dogfighting or anything either -- he'll likely be at standoff range from any enemy SAMs or fighters -- so I'd use the analogy of driving in a straight line while changing songs on an iPod.

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Happy New YEar everyone btw (at least in NZ it is 2011 )

Re: New Generation Fighter

Iirc, there's a picture by pinko on key publishing with museum shots of the J-10; length is 16.1, so 20 meters. or approximately 66.

Re: New Generation Fighter

J-10 length seems to be 16.43m (, )

So who wants to do the calculations?

Edit: I get 21m at most (roughly 69 feet)

Re: New Generation Fighter

I noticed some stuff in my old photo-archive, a map of China's indigenous fighter development:

The top 4 planes on the left are the proposals for the J-13 programme, below them are the J-8 and J-12, the swing wing thingy further down is the Q-6, and at the bottom are the 4 proposals for the J-9 project.

The red planes and arrows is the lineage of J-10, J-9IV evolved into J-9VI-1 which eventually led to the J-10, note that below J-9VI-1 is a huge delta canard twin engine thingy. That's the J-9VI-2, and here's a picture of its wind tunnel model:

a long, twin engine, twin vertical stabliser delta canard fighter.

Basically, the aerodynamic design of the J-20 is almost 40 years in the making. Can't speak for other parts of the plane, but there is the possibility that the design is a lot more mature than most people think.

Re: New Generation Fighter

QuadroFX said:

HKSDU
Hey, dude, this scheme was originally owned by paralay

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1) This ain't mine
2) He doesn't own the scheme. Lot of professions use this scheme of front, side and top view. Architects, Engineers, Designers, etc... So he doesn't own anything

kyanges said:

It's also quite wrong. I know I saw he made quite a few revisions as newer pictures surfaced.

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LOL don't shoot the sharer


My thinking so far....

We can see that J-8 are being replaced by J-11/Flankers, J-7 being replaced by J-10, Q-5 being replaced by JH-7A. I can see the JH-7A production starting to slow down, J-11 will continue in production with a couple more regiments, the J-10 will still be in mass production regardless of the J-XX. So.... many J-7 regiments to re-modernize, J-10 its the cheapest choice and the most capable for its price.

Line of defence J-11's foward deployed to counter threats, if that fails the J-XX will be called out, while J-10 is to provide aerial protection of the mainland if they get through. Sort of like Police (J-11), when all fails SWAT (J-XX), public security (J-10).

Another situation I see them being used are pre-emtive strike platforms prior to the rest of the military moving in or the rest of the air force. I can also see some of them modified to serve as a light nuclear carrier platform. Possible additional role was act as a mini stealth bomber for its giving it a 3rd nuclear strike option. Maybe one of the reasons its that big is to also act as a nuclear bomber.

Using J-XX as a cruise missle carrying platform? Serious? Bit reckless and wasteful. If your sending in aerial cruise missle to counter carrier then its basically a get into missle range-fire-run. Cause you do not want to be there with such thick air defence protecting it, or possible fighters in air already. Your outnumbered and out powered. Why would you send something so expensive and so little of them in service to do a shoot-run mission. JH-7A & J-11 is adequate to do that. J-XX are needed to protect the air space.

Now regarding size being too big, the Flanker was seen as huge back in the days yet was very maneuverable and could outmaneuver alot of its smaller counter parts, despite the size.

Engines, my theory is that the final engine isn't installed on the J-XX yet cause its not yet ready. They are using temporary engines to facilitate the J-XX so they can proceed with testing, instead of sitting around wasting time until the engine is ready. That would be a reason why the engines aren't fully blended or integrated in with the airframe as its no need cause its only powering it for testing. Maybe when the actual engine comes in it will be sealed into the airframe (blended/intergrated) more further.

Remember all its a prototype though it looks to be a nearly fully finalized prototype.

I can easily see 10 years with 200 J-XX. Remember the J-10 was groundbreaking and they could only muster around 2-3 fighters/month with annual of 1 regiment being produced. True that now they are experienced with modern production and aircraft, it is still another level of technology and groundbreaking feat...So it probably will be 1 regiment per year or little less, so 200 in 10 years is possible. Add to its yearly military budget increase the airforce during those 10 years will receive significant budget spending increases for procurement.

We should be expecting new hangars to be developed, as they won't want these beast to be sitting out in the open. So look for new hangars and most likely J-XX will in service there. New divisions and regiments made just for J-XX? Dunno, food for thought though.

Think I wrote enough. Been following these recent discussion for awhile but didn't want to post anything until the chatter subsided...7 new pages made each day...sinodefence booming again. Add to that the WZ-10 we see in service, and Varyag in final fitting processes.

Re: New Generation Fighter

ztz99g said:

Why don't you try reading that FAS article again, especially the definition of SEAD? [...]
... That activity that neutralizes, destroys, or temporarily degrades surface-based enemy air defenses by destructive and/or disruptive means

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I read it again, it remains an "or" listing, one of the points is enough for SEAD, of course, as I said, destruction may occur, but it's not a necessity. I will admit that the division between the two things is not as clear as I probably made it out to be. They are related. But if you have a strike package that is escorted by EW support jamming the radar, and SEAD aircraft that, i.e. shoot ARMs preemptively along the flight path, forcing the radars to remain in STBY, your aircraft can get through to the target and back. You have neutralized / temporarily degraded GBAD by disruptive means. Even without killing a single SAM site element a 100% succesfull SEAD mission.
Anyway, a stealth aircraft can still announce it's presence, by randomly sending out jamming signals for example. These will most likely be picked up. The enemy now knows there is someone, so he's again tempted to look with his radar. When he does, a stealth aircraft can still fire a missile to engage.

SampanViking said:

This notion of a J-20 controlling a large number of UACV's is interesting, but is it really feasible to ask the pilot of a one man fighter to distract himself away from operating his own aircraft to such a degree

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It will of course be a demanding task, but very different from controlling RC cars on the motorway.
Such an employment method will necessarily require a high degree of automatisation. The pilot will just push a button for a certain type of formation and then the UCAVs will have to hold that relative postition by theirselves. The Pilot may also elect a certain UCAV to activate it's sensors in a certain directon, or open fire on a specific target. But all the required maneuvering etc. to achieve launch / operating parameters will have to come from the UCAV AI. They will have to be artificail wingmen. Hence for full up ops, it will still be a long way to go. For rather uncomplex strike missions, it will be easier.

My first J-20 video. Try it!

[video=youtube;1EBztMJBhAs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EBztMJBhAs[/video]

Re: New Generation Fighter

Wait a minute!! How is this aircraft the Raptors peer?

Riddle me this Batman!

What sort of engines does it have? Giving the fact the long development of the WS-10.. How fast is it? What is it's rate of climb? Does it have sawtooth leading edges? Is it truly stealthy? What is it's weapons load? Does it have a bomb bay? If not how many external hard points does it have? What's the electronic package? Give me the facts!

The USAF has 168 F-22s in operation.. and is building 19 more. How many J-20s does China have? Just askin'..