J-20... The New Generation Fighter

Re: New Generation Fighter

Bltizo said:

Lol I bet the Russians love Andrei's articles like this.

Dude why even post an article from such a BS source anyway? (Even though I've done so in the past as well, but still..)

On the "J-20's" service date thing, if we're going along the J-10's timeline, they had full IOC around two years before it entered small scale service so I'm hoping we'll see a few 4th gen planes in service around 2015-2017.

Click to expand...

While on the other hand, Indians and Russians think Andrei's articles are complements to Chinese defence industry. Lol.

So, Blitzo, can you make a plaaf vs iaf video on youtube? Please.

Re: New Generation Fighter

hbogyt said:

So, Blitzo, can you make a plaaf vs iaf video on youtube? Please.

Click to expand...

ff
I've kind of relented from posting any military related videos on Youtube actually, because I got friends from school who have youtube accounts and they know my username... It would get kind of awkward when they see a video and then you see them at school. I deleted all the videos I made before for the same reason.
I also make those military videos when ever I get really annoyed by an article or something I see as a way to vent anger, and for the past year or so it's been relatively serene on the IAF front so yeah. Besides, those kind of videos usually start flame wars.

----

Aviation week has got an article on China's 4th gen fighter and the large transport aircraft. Doesn't say too much which we do not know though.
Close To Testing Next-Gen Fighter

In it, it mentions Richard Fisher once again saying if China's 4th gen fighter may encourage the US to start producing the F-22 again. I know we've had this discussion many times, but now at this point and time - is the emergence of Chinese and Russian 5th gen planes enough for the US to start producing the F-22 again?

Re: New Generation Fighter

mass production T/R MMIC was big problem for any radar makers.even the US take decade to bring down the cost per module,from more than $7000 per chip to less than $1000 ($700?).
back in late 2006, nanjing radar spokeman reported similiar t/r mMIC i China could cost more than $10,000 plus!
All the China could do,is to import the chip from russia.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Lundblad.Jeff said:

personally i interpret "very soon" as being before the year 2012. I don't think the test flight will occur next year, i think 2011 or 2012 still qualifies.

Then, I'd say 4 years of flight testing will follow, with production beginning in 2016 and IOC by 2019.

Click to expand...

Sounds like a more realistic time line to me, thought the first flight might be missing one or more of the 4s (stealth, super-cruise, super maneuverability, short take-off/landing) which will be added eventually.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Bltizo said:

I know we've had this discussion many times, but now at this point and time - is the emergence of Chinese and Russian 5th gen planes enough for the US to start producing the F-22 again?

Click to expand...

I would consider it highly unlikely. The US Congress just approved their 2010 Defense Authorization Bill which would shut-down the F-22 production line. Once tooling for long lead items is scrapped, it would be very expensive to reproduce all of the tooling, and requalify the manufacturing processes. Once the production line is shut down - it's story over.

The Obama Pentagon is also very focused on preserving funding for the F-35 program - and would see any talk of more F-22 funds as a diversion from that goal. They even threatened to veto the 2010 Defense Authorization Bill if Congress cut funding from the F-35 test program to fund any of the Congressional pork-barrel projects that usually get added on.

Re: New Generation Fighter

challenge said:

mass production T/R MMIC was big problem for any radar makers.even the US take decade to bring down the cost per module,from more than $7000 per chip to less than $1000 ($700?).
back in late 2006, nanjing radar spokeman reported similiar t/r mMIC i China could cost more than $10,000 plus!
All the China could do,is to import the chip from russia.

Click to expand...

What are you yapping nonsense about? You don't know what you talking about.

I saw the Chinese GaAs product catalog, they have cheap price.

Re: New Generation Fighter

thank's for the picture,but I do not see any picture x band T/R MMIC.
nanjing first fabricate x band T/R MMIC in 2004.output is 8 watts, lenght 25mm ,but I think improve MMIC with higher out may already exist.

Re: New Generation Fighter

challenge said:

thank's for the picture,but I do not see any picture x band T/R MMIC.
nanjing first fabricate x band T/R MMIC in 2004.output is 8 watts, lenght 25mm ,but I think improve MMIC with higher out may already exist.

Click to expand...

China is not behind Russia in this area. PKF just can't accept that. If you believe his stories, that's your problem.

What do you think is used on the AESA radars for the T/R modules on KJ-200 and KJ-2000?

Re: New Generation Fighter

challenge said:

PAF purchased J-10 will not include Chinese make radar and avionic.

Click to expand...

You do not know this at all. In all likelihood it will be Chinese radar and avionics on the J-10's exported to PAF. One of the main reasons Pakistan is buying J-10 is because it wants the J-10's radar and avionics.

Even if Pakistan somehow had access to advanced European radars and avionics and wanted them on J-10, China will not want their J-10's internal systems to be opened up to western suppliers for integration. The Europeans will also not want their radars and avionics exposed to Chinese engineers for integration into J-10 either.

So you are wrong, unless somehow PAF can get advanced European systems off the shelf and completely integrate them with J-10 all by themselves successfully.

Re: New Generation Fighter

tphuang said:

China is not behind Russia in this area. PKF just can't accept that. If you believe his stories, that's your problem.

What do you think is used on the AESA radars for the T/R modules on KJ-200 and KJ-2000?

Click to expand...

I believe building one thing for a large radar such as used on KJ-200 and KJ-2000 is slightly different than building one small enough for a fighter jet. I am sure you know better than I do on chinese defense matters so probably you can shed some more light on this. Also considering China isn't even trying to hide its 4th gen plane, if such an AESA existed, one can presume it would have been known by know.

Lets wait and see how things go. It would make little sense to have a "4th gen fighter" with non PESA/AESA radar so I am sure one is close to being built if not already done.

Londo Molari said:

You do not know this at all. In all likelihood it will be Chinese radar and avionics on the J-10's exported to PAF. One of the main reasons Pakistan is buying J-10 is because it wants the J-10's radar and avionics.

Even if Pakistan somehow had access to advanced European radars and avionics and wanted them on J-10, China will not want their J-10's internal systems to be opened up to western suppliers for integration. The Europeans will also not want their radars and avionics exposed to Chinese engineers for integration into J-10 either.

So you are wrong, unless somehow PAF can get advanced European systems off the shelf and completely integrate them with J-10 all by themselves successfully.

Click to expand...

You do know that Tanvir Mahmood explicitly said in an interview with AFP (in 2008) that pakistan wants a western radar of its own choice on the FC-20? I am sure there is a way out or he wouldn't have said that.

However, seeing the new date is so far away, its entirely possible to have complete Chinese systems on the FC-20. I believe he also said there are "new weapons and missiles being made by China for themselves and for us". So also possible to see a next generation of A2A missiles on it.

Sorry for going off topic and bringing the FC-20 discussion here.