J-20... The New Generation Fighter

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Blitzo

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Re: New Generation Fighter

For those who think that'd be too much work to go into faking it just to screw Pinkov, perhaps you chaps forgot that bald guy once made a wager in calling China can't roll out 4th-generation (by Western standard) fighters within 4 years, and he'd have Kanwa close down the Chinese publishing if he was wrong...if I remember correctly that wager is close to the deadline and I won't be surprised that those in China want to take a swing at someone that draw a lot of their hate.

I feel that the BBS posters would be the ones who lose more if they did a mass conspiracy/PS thing... And many of the posters would lose credibility.


See, if they want to give a display for the leaders, if it need not for a demo flight they don't need to toll it outside, just do it inside a hanger would be sufficient; neither would there be any need to toll a mockup outside.

These pictures we got probably weren't from a display nor of a mock up, but from the prototype's taxi runs.

And not just it's too early to call, the level of wishful thinking displayed here
is...disturbing. Besides, the insignia on the tailfin is non-standard, and PLAAF has the standard enforced quite strictly; colors ain't primer and neither the standard air-superiority scheme used across the board. RAM material? Perhaps but why not in the standard air-superiority scheme, like the Americans'?

The insignia is non standard possibly because it's not in PLAAF service yet and is simply CAC saying "yeah this is a ground breaking moment for the PLA and China". Colors aren't primer because they wanted to show off to the leaders (obviously inside the hangar). It's not in the "standard" scheme because... since when was the PLAAF's paint scheme similar to the USAFs?
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Re: New Generation Fighter

For those who think that'd be too much work to go into faking it just to screw Pinkov, perhaps you chaps forgot that bald guy once made a wager in calling China can't roll out 4th-generation fighters within 4 years, and he'd have Kanwa close down the Chinese publishing if he was wrong...if I remember correctly that wager is close to the deadline and I won't be surprised that those in China want to take a swing at someone that draw a lot of their hate.
I doubt the Chinese military would try to do something as petty as try to shut down an inaccurate publisher on Chinese military affairs no matter the enmity for him in the general public. Maybe you're asserting that the general public is trying to make an attempt, but you'd think that with all the other PSs we've had before that anyone trying would think better than to convince Kanwa with another PS attempt. On the other hand, the pattern of released pictures is very similar to other authentic releases like the J-10B, and too many times pictures have been taken off or withheld, which tells us something's up. In addition, the level of activity seems beyond that of a PS, so either it's a really good sustained effort or it's the real thing.



For one I'm dead broke to make a bet, and for two it's just too early to call it real deal.

See, if they want to give a display for the leaders, if it need not for a demo flight they don't need to toll it outside, just do it inside a hanger would be sufficient; neither would there be any need to toll a mockup outside.
They could have it outside is for a taxi run, but it could also be for actual flight testing.

And not just it's too early to call, the level of wishful thinking displayed here is...disturbing. Besides, the insignia on the tailfin is non-standard, and PLAAF has the standard enforced quite strictly; colors ain't primer and neither the standard air-superiority scheme used across the board. RAM material? Perhaps but why not in the standard air-superiority scheme, like the Americans'?

Until there're clearer pics and better, at takeoff/landing ones, I maintain my stand in not taking them for real.

You're both saying that the insignia on the tailfin is not standard and that we need clearer pictures. I agree with the former so I'm going to assume that the latter doesn't stand logically, since we don't know whether the insignia is just a red star or the actual PLAAF symbol. If it's the latter I see no reason why it can't be on a vertical stabilizer. After all the J-11 has the PLAAF insignia on its tail.

Primer colour is dependent on the material used, and the type of topcoat. It could easily be a different primer because the type of topcoat and/or material underneath is different from what CAC would normally produce. On the other hand, there are no reasons why it can't just be a demonstration colour. After all, why bother with an elaborate scheme when you're merely doing taxi runs and flight tests?

Takeoff landing pics are difficult to take because the process is very short, and people have to be there at just the right time to catch them. On the other hand taxi runs are easy as the plane just sits there and loiters for half the time.

In any case, the level of activity surrounding these pics and the frequency of releases is a pretty clear indication that this isn't a fake, especially if you look at previous release patterns for other controversial projects.
 

siegecrossbow

General
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Re: New Generation Fighter

So far, the interesting thing about this aircraft is that...it appears more Western than Russian. The T-50 still has a distinctive Flanker look to it.

The J-20 is closer in appearance to the F-22

The one piece bubble canopy was a nice touch. Wonder if they are gonna add gold plating later in the game though.

@MwRyum: Who knows, maybe we'll get the proof that you want tomorrow. Recently there has been rumors that the bird will fly before the end of the year. I suspect that quite a few military enthusiasts are camping outside CAC right now.

p.s. Has there been any response from the PLAAF? Seems like they are not giving a damn.
 

Blitzo

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Re: New Generation Fighter

The one piece bubble canopy was a nice touch. Wonder if they are gonna add gold plating later in the game though.

@MwRyum: Who knows, maybe we'll get the proof that you want tomorrow. Recently there has been rumors that the bird will fly before the end of the year. I suspect that quite a few military enthusiasts are camping outside CAC right now.

p.s. Has there been any response from the PLAAF? Seems like they are not giving a damn.

The J-10B prototype (in my eyes) seemed to have a level of the gold shade to it:
J-10B_1031a.jpg

I wonder if the current J-XX prototype has the shade to it either -- the current pictures are so blurry it's hard to tell one colour from another.

I don't think the PLAAF will be giving a damn actually -- these pictures are finally being "allowed" to be posted on the net meaning they must have given some form of consent. I think they almost encourage this kind of drip feeding (or as some call it -- strip tease :D).
 

siegecrossbow

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Re: New Generation Fighter

I don't think the PLAAF will be giving a damn actually -- these pictures are finally being "allowed" to be posted on the net meaning they must have given some form of consent. I think they almost encourage this kind of drip feeding (or as some call it -- strip tease :D).

When do you think that the J-XX will enter service, at the rate that things are going?
 

Blitzo

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Re: New Generation Fighter

When do you think that the J-XX will enter service, at the rate that things are going?

I'm thinking they might get IOC with non WS-15 engines around 2015-2016 and then WS-15 equipped J-XX within the 2017-2019 timeframe.
Depends when the first flight is really.

-------

(And I also just realized how long it'll take for us to get a solid, top view of this plane. Remember when PAK FA came out early this year? They had a state-backed video of it from all angles online within a day or two of the first picture. We may have to wait the better side of half a decade. Oh the greivances of being a PLA fan)
 

Centrist

Junior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

I'm thinking they might get IOC with non WS-15 engines around 2015-2016 and then WS-15 equipped J-XX within the 2017-2019 timeframe.
Depends when the first flight is really.

-------

(And I also just realized how long it'll take for us to get a solid, top view of this plane. Remember when PAK FA came out early this year? They had a state-backed video of it from all angles online within a day or two of the first picture. We may have to wait the better side of half a decade. Oh the greivances of being a PLA fan)

However, this time MAY be different. The Chinese government is very concerned about face in terms of technological inferiority. This time, instead of decades behind Russia, they are only a few months behind...not to mention the J-20 looks more advanced than the T-50. China no longer needs to hide its aircraft out of embarrassment. Personally, I doubt the guys at Chengdu don't really care, if anything they WANT people seeing what they have been cooking up for the past decade.

Only speculation though.
 

dingyibvs

Senior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

Not being an expert on these things, may someone explain why Aviation Week's Bill Sweetman wrote that China made a mistake in not making a STOVL variant? How would he know and why is that impotant this early on? I mean Richard Fisher has been writing that China is developing their own F-35B. That would about as accurate as making the assumption that China has no plan for STOVL variant.

He was being sarcastic, it was in reference to the gigantic cost hikes and numerous delays suffered by the F-35.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
Re: New Generation Fighter

The usage of the 117S (if JANES is right) is probably because that's the closest they can get to simulating the WS-15's characteristics and performance.
 
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