J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

MiG-29 said:

Nice to meet you peperez, i understand portuguese, simply because i am Mexican and speak spanish as my first language.

Well to be honest in GDP China is not an equal of Italy in per capita, neither its economy is fully developed to say they have catched up with the western living standards.
In asia the only nations in per capita terms that are equivalent to Europe are Japan and South Korea.

China is more or less like Peru in GDP per capita and almost like 2/3 of the US economy in GDP and macro economic terms.

So China is a very complex economy combining the technological power of a developed nation like Japan or Germany but with a population with an average PPP GDP like a developing nation.
Of course some cities in China are as impressive as Tokyo or London, but average Chinese citizen still can be considered in the same terms of a developing nation.

The chinese middle class might be as large as the whole population of Russia or even Brazil, but china has hundreds of millions still not better than nations like Cuba in HDI, so China is a very complex nation, but definitively still is a developing nation socially but technologically is a first rate power.

So the J-20 is not cheaper in terms of the social costs, the J-7 is definitively vastly much cheaper than equivalent MiG-21 build by Russia or the JF-17 cheaper than an F-16 in the export market.

If China decides to export the J-20 i agree it will be cheaper than the F-22, but as a product that will only satisfy Chinese needs and only for the PLAAF, then the jet is expensive since Chinese average salaries are much cheaper than western equivalents and the western countries are much wealthier

Click to expand...

China is not a capitalistic country. A wage of USD 100 in China permits a family to live and get some money at the bank or under the mattress (yehp, they keep money at home!). The rent of a three piece apartment, for a Occidental, in Beijing is around USD 3 thousand. For a Chinese family you can find rents at USD 10. In Shanghai I saw a store that sells good quality jeans at USD 3 a piece! It's not a popular shop, but a good looking and rather sophisticated store. That's why the Chinese savings at banks got a USD 12 trillion in 2008, with a similar amount saved at home. That's why they can sell so cheap. By the way, I also visited the rural country. I wrote about this and I can sent you my impressions (in Portuguese). Just send me your e-mail in PM.

Cheers

Pepe

sdleio said:

More latest N.o2002 J-20 pics:

Click to expand...

The first picture is likely that of 2001 because of the lower "Star" position.

peperez said:

China is not a capitalistic country. A wage of USD 100 in China permits a family to live and get some money at the bank or under the mattress (yehp, they keep money at home!). The rent of a three piece apartment, for a Occidental, in Beijing is around USD 3 thousand. For a Chinese family you can find rents at USD 10. In Shanghai I saw a store that sells good quality jeans at USD 3 a piece! It's not a popular shop, but a good looking and rather sophisticated store. That's why the Chinese savings at banks got a USD 12 trillion in 2008, with a similar amount saved at home. That's why they can sell so cheap. By the way, I also visited the rural country. I wrote about this and I can sent you my impressions (in Portuguese). Just send me your e-mail in PM.

Cheers

Pepe

Click to expand...

Well, consumer product-wise, it's NOT cheap in China anymore. That's why the #1 goal for most of the Chinese tourists in the US is to buy name-brand stuff. You can go to any Coach stores to see what I'm saying. Some Chinese are buying 10-20 Coach purses at a time because the bags/purses are so much cheaper in the US than in China. I've also heard news about American real estate companies organizing tours to get Chinese from China to the US so that they can buy houses in the States. Why? because the houses in China are so much more expensive. How do I know all this? My in-laws who spend their entire life in China just came to the US and all they have been saying is how cheap everything is in the States. They mentioned beef (don't know what kind of cut) costs about US$3-4/Ib. That's everyday-item costing similar to what costs in the US...

Things will be different if you go to the country-side. Yes, everything will be dirt-cheap there. However, everything is expensive in the cities in China.

I can also find $3-$5 jeans in the US. It's called Wal-Mart.

Quickie said:

The first picture is likely that of 2001 because of the lower "Star" position.

Click to expand...

If you look carefully at the main wheels, you'll see that the doors were not there (closed up). So it is the 2002.

Obviously, if you want to BUY real-estate, you can get a lot of cheaper offers today at US after the market crash. A Brazilian girl, friend of mine, almost bought a house in Florida cause it cost half the price found in Belo Horizonte, one of our biggest cities. About the jeans, Walmart, probably, is selling Chinese products. In China, this is a HIGH QUALITY product price. If you want brand, you will prefer to buy in the States because you have more warranties against falsification. The secret in China to live cheap is live like Chinese. It's costly live as a foreigner.

Cheers

Pepe

---------- Post added at 05:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:25 PM ----------

J-20 and T-50 will be cheap alternatives to F-35 in a near future. Arab countries, soon or later, will ask for stealth fighters and will have no Occidental alternatives in the market. Chinese build warbirds well and cheap. Is a question of time sell planes at markets US and Europe don't want to supply.

Cheers

Pepe

Some high-resolution J-20-2002 pics, check the links.

Chinese amateur CG artists are really something to behold...

This was a CG of 2001 months ago:



Now the below is 2002 – are you kidding me? See those “things” above “2002”? Are those gleaming green at night as well? ROFL!





I know it’s an only cosmetic thing, but it’s good to see that Chengdu designers ( I mean a small part of Chinese war bird designers) finally getting some long-overdue aesthetical sense!

The Chinese are just way too simple with that age-old “cheap, cheap, you buy” marketing holly grail. Some simple green lights ( if I’m not mistaken here) of 2002 would make it suddenly a breath of fresh air aesthetically altogether. It’s a good start, a baby step though. Why not try some sci-fi camouflage colour & design scheme for the next instead of those kindergarten-grade yellow-red-blue strips shown by the J-10 exhibition team?

And don’t get me started with that usual official Photography Teem which should be fired long ago… as I’m at it… I’ve rarely seen some breathtaking high qua high def photos & clips of J-10, JF-17, J-11 etc that are remotely close to most of Rafale, F-22, F-15, F-16 and Flankers out there. Wonder why JF-17 doesn’t have the best image in the export market despite being the best quality/price deal by far, and why Rafale, worth about $80-90m bucks IMO, could fetch $120m (of course Indians are not known for being brainy either)?

Why? Yes, one of the main reasons is that gizmo marketing does pay out. “Rafale International”; “Omni-role”, etc. etc. WOW! It does help changing people’s intuition and aesthetical feel in association of quality and degrees of modernity of and for them. So get some artists over, quickly, and pay the “photo guys” a decent hourly fee, darn it!

OKE, this “gizmo”, or better put “asaesthetically clever designed features”, extends as a lesson to most “made-In-China” as well. The same Wal-Mart $3-$5 jeans with a slightly better raw materials (trust me), some “asaesthetically clever design scheme” backed upo by a world-class marketing team and the corresponding fees…voila! we have 200-buck Armani!

BTW, J-20 doesn’t look that long in this angle, perhaps slightly longer than F-22/A that’s it, and it looks much more gorgeous and macho than seemingly malnutritious and underweight PAK FA to be honest.

Speeder said:

Chinese amateur CG artists are really something to behold...

This was a CG of 2001 months ago:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Now the below is 2002 – are you kidding me? See those “things” above “2002”? Are those gleaming green at night as well? ROFL!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Click to expand...

Those lights are there in the CG of the 2001 because they were there in the real 2001.



Also, I like the thin and lite looks of the T-50. Looks far more maneuverable than the J-20. Before anyone says it, yes, I know one can not say which is more maneuverable just by looking at it. It's just my opinion on the aesthetics of the two.

kyanges, really? then good so! (though I haven't seen any night time shots of 2001 yet...)

My point on "gizmos"( ideally combine features with high tech), however, is still valid.

Do you guys think that the landing gears of J-20 are kinda too tiny? Do the tiny landing gears indicate anything to its weight?