J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

LOL right on cue... clearly the PLAAF are going to purchase Su-35! And J-10 is a copy of the Su-27 and JF-17 a copy of Mig-29 trololol

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World
Russia Close to Sign Su-35 Fighter Deal With China
Sukhoi Su-35 multirole fighter

Sukhoi Su-35 multirole fighter
© RIA Novosti. Anton Denisov
07:23 06/03/2012
MOSCOW, March 6 (RIA Novosti)
Tags: MiG-29, Chengdu J-10, Su-35, China, Russia
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Multimedia

4++ generation fighter Su-35S

Russia and China may soon sign a $4-bln contract on the delivery of 48 Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E fighter jets to the Chinese air force, Russia’s Kommersant business daily said on Tuesday.

“The sides have practically agreed on the delivery of 48 Su-35 multirole fighters, worth $4 billion, to China,” Kommersant said citing a source in the Russian defense industry.

According to the paper, the only obstacle remaining is Moscow’s demand that Beijing should guarantee the protection of copyrights on the production of Su-35s without proper licensing.

“Moscow is not only aiming to ensure its presence on the Chinese [combat aircraft] market, but also attempting to prevent the potential copycat production of Russian aircraft for subsequent sales to third parties with predatory pricing,” a Russian government source told Kommesant.

China has a poor record concerning copycat manufacturing of advanced Russian combat aircraft.

4++ generation fighter Su-35S

Russian experts claim that Chinese Chengdu J-10 fighter is a copy of Su-27 Flanker, Shenyang J-11 is a replica of Su-30 Flanker-C, and FC-1 is a copy of MiG-29 Fulcrum.

The Su-35, powered by two 117S engines with thrust vectoring, combines high maneuverability and the capability to effectively engage several air targets simultaneously using both guided and unguided missiles and weapon systems.

The aircraft has been touted as "4++ generation using fifth-generation technology."

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Well played indeed.

Bltizo said:

LOL right on cue... clearly the PLAAF are going to purchase Su-35! And J-10 is a copy of the Su-27 and JF-17 a copy of Mig-29 trololol

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World
Russia Close to Sign Su-35 Fighter Deal With China

Russia and China may soon sign a $4-bln contract on the delivery of 48 Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E fighter jets to the Chinese air force, Russia’s Kommersant business daily said on Tuesday.

“The sides have practically agreed on the delivery of 48 Su-35 multirole fighters, worth $4 billion, to China,” Kommersant said citing a source in the Russian defense industry.

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they even give the contract amount.

Russian experts claim that Chinese Chengdu J-10 fighter is a copy of Su-27 Flanker, Shenyang J-11 is a replica of Su-30 Flanker-C, and FC-1 is a copy of MiG-29 Fulcrum.

Click to expand...

lol these days everyone is becoming an expert.

I love the part about there's only one obstacle which is the copyright issue. So when the deal never happens they can say it was because of that. At least they thought about it this time.

MiG-29 said:

simple it says why China needs Su-35 with supercruise ability and TVC nozzles and advanced radars if the J-20 is supposedly to have better engines WS-15 and it is ready to fly in 2018 in operational service?
And it gives a hint why Russia would not sell it since it might be just a way of getting the 117 and improve the WS-15.

However the article is more an essay, originally it was reported that China wanted just Su-35
China has asked Russia to supply it with Sukhoi Su-35 fighters and Almaz-Antei S-400 Triumph long-range air defence systems.

The Rossiyskaya Gazeta newspaper quoted Alexander Fomin, deputy head of Russia's Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, as saying that Beijing filed requests for the equipment last year. "The Russian side is considering these applications," he said

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I think China has a lot to gain buy buying Su-35 and this also proves J-20 has no 117 engines in my opinion

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Hehe... It seems to me, Mig-29, you're not refuting engineer's refutation of the "weird claims" in your quoted article, but rather you're repeating the "weird claims".

I am with engineer on this. The story sounds hollow. We see no reason for China to want to buy the Su-35... Willing to buy a couple of them to have a look? That would be more like it.

China, as a state, does not need and is not trying to prove to anyone what engines the J-20 is using. It's the fans in both China and outside China who try very hard to prove one way or the other. While we fans are busy YYing, China is, and hopefully will be, moving ahead. That is good, isn't it?

---------- Post added at 02:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:41 AM ----------

I hope the article about the Su-35 deal is not of genuine Russian origin, for I don't wish to see the Russian media stoop so low... Reminicent too much of the style of another neighbor's...

Lol Russia today has reported on it too... Simply because of the amount of russian media reporting it I'm willing to consider the possibility that this might have a tiny shred of credibility.

But hey a few years ago they were saying China was going to buy 50 Su-33s too and guess where that went. This deal is even more nonsensical and unnecessary for the PLA than Su-33 was. Unless they have such massive stocks of russian weapons that it's cheaper to buy a handful of russian fighters to continue to have platforms able to support them or something...

Bltizo said:

Lol Russia today has reported on it too... Simply because of the amount of russian media reporting it I'm willing to consider the possibility that this might have a tiny shred of credibility.

But hey a few years ago they were saying China was going to buy 50 Su-33s too and guess where that went. This deal is even more nonsensical and unnecessary for the PLA than Su-33 was. Unless they have such massive stocks of russian weapons that it's cheaper to buy a handful of russian fighters to continue to have platforms able to support them or something...

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Or maybe Mig-29 happens to be correct in guessing that China is failing in delivering its own stuff? Hehe... Nothing is impossible.

On the Chinese fan forums, there is an opinion: SOME of the things China buys from Russia, not because China lacks the ability to make them, but because China wish to use such purchases to maintain the relationship, commercian and political, between the two countries.

I think the fact that China has always defaulted to modifying their own flanker platforms makes the Su-35 deal suspect.

latenlazy said:

I think the fact that China has always defaulted to modifying their own flanker platforms makes the Su-35 deal suspect.

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I think there are many things which makes this deal suspect. Past practices, present practices, and projected future practices all work against the logic of such a deal.

Player99 said:

Or maybe Mig-29 happens to be correct in guessing that China is failing in delivering its own stuff? Hehe... Nothing is impossible.

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Even if they were having issues, a purchase of a different product to RE won't exactly help. By the time you get your head around the other engine or nozzle or whatever you probably would've made even more progress on your own.

On the Chinese fan forums, there is an opinion: SOME of the things China buys from Russia, not because China lacks the ability to make them, but because China wish to use such purchases to maintain the relationship, commercian and political, between the two countries.

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Hah, in that case it might be better for the russians to buy license production of 071 instead

MiG-29 said:

I know J-20 will gain a lot with TVC nozzles in terms of supercruise and stealth, if the Chinese decide it does not need them, well maybe it will be more like F-35 rather than F-22, yeah maybe in that way a 2018 date might be achievable.

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Huh, you're now suggesting that the J-20 without thrust vectoring would be more like F-35? Since when TVC nozzles are so critical to the overall stealth design of an aircraft? You're also mistaken to suggest that thrust vectoring can take over the functions of the usual control surfaces or reduce their sizes. F-22 or PakFa have thrust vectoring but their control surfaces are still about the same size as those of current J-20 prototype without thrust vectoring.

Come on guys, this thread is going all over the place. We are talking about Su35 buys now? Isn't it bad enough we have Mig29 spamming completely unrelated stuff here and now we are all joining in?

There is about 3 pages of this stuff that I just honestly could not be bothered to wade through to see if there had been any more developments or news on the J20.

Can we please at least try to keep the discussion on subject? Thanks.