China does not need Su-35s to counter Indian Rafales. By the time those Rafales and Su-35s are delivered they probably would have found their own solution, if they don't have one already. Besides, its not about the individual platforms but the systems, and China is much further along in its aerial systems.
J-20... The New Generation Fighter III
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China does not need Su-35s to counter Indian Rafales. By the time those Rafales and Su-35s are delivered they probably would have found their own solution, if they don't have one already. Besides, its not about the individual platforms but the systems, and China is much further along in its aerial systems.
MiG-29
Banned Idiot
You are right, no one is in disagreement with you, at least not me, i was just pointing out that any thrust vectoring system will bring benefits to J-20, if they go for 3D the advantages are lighter system with lower losses in static thrust.
If they go for 2D they will have lower IR and RCS signature, the F-22 has that system.
F-35 has a higher nozzle IR signature and does not supercruise, the jet does not get as hot, fuselage heat increases IR signature and fast jets will be detected that way, so a J-20 will become with lower IR signature with 2D nozzles.
Lower trim drag, means better acceleration and top speed characteristics, so any thrust vectoring system will increase that on J-20.
The other problem presented by moving aerodynamic surfaces is higher RCS, so adding TVC nozzles will reduce that RCS, thus TVC nozzles will benefit J-20 stealth characteristics as this article let us see
An all-moving canard capable of a significant nose-down deflection will protect against pitch-up. Control canards have poor stealth characteristics, because they present large moving surfaces forward of the wing
---------- Post added at 08:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 PM ----------
Brat thanks but we do not need to mention any more about Su-35, my point was TVC nozzles have advantages that will need to be used, and of course J-20 will benefit a lot by using them
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Can you rephrase that?
I don't understand what you're trying to say here at all.
I feel like you just tried to say that a guy who's not sprinting is colder, and therefore a person wearing dress pants will have a lower heat sig.
Neither seem related.
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MiG-29
Banned Idiot
.0 Heat radiation reduction
Infrared radiation (heat) should be minimized by a combination of temperature reduction and masking, although there is no point in doing these past the point where the hot parts are no longer the dominant terms in the radiation equation. The main body of the airplane has its own radiation, heavily dependent on speed and altitude, and the jet plume can be a most significant factor, particularly in afterburning operation.
At the speeds the SR-71 operated, surface temperatures were extremely high due to aerodynamic heating: 800 degrees at the nose, 1,200 degrees on the engine cowlings, 620 degrees on the cockpit windshield. Because of the operating altitudes, speeds, and temperatures, Lockheed
Aerodynamic heating is a way of detecting stealth fighters, thus a 2D nozzles will reduce the J-20 IR signature since if it is planned to supercruise, the heat signature will go higher just by aerodynamic heating
[video=youtube;58N6Plr17GU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58N6Plr17GU[/video]
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Right, so always wear long pants when going in harms way, makes perfect sense to me bro, and I will take that advice, kinda like thos Brits who wore short pants on SAFARI, ya just never know when you might be standing over a black Mamba, when the Buffalo charges.
I'm still lost here. How does changing the nozzle make the plane's fuselage cooler when it's supercrusing?
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MiG-29
Banned Idiot
F-35 flies slower thus it generates less aerodynamic heating, a F-22 flies at supercruise speeds most of the time, thus it generates more aerodynamic heating but its 2D nozzles add less IR signature than the F-35`s
If J-20 has rounded nozzles its IR signature is higher than with 2D, but it if it supercruises it will generate more heat than at subsonic speeds.
F-35 flies slower so it might not have a 2D nozzle but it will have a cooler fuselage, F-22 has a hotter fuselage to cool, if J-20 flies faster with rounded nozzles you are increasing the signature with respect both F-35 and F-22`s flight envelopes.
So J-20 will need TVC nozzles to reduce drag, IR signature, increase supercruise effectiveness.
If they go for 3D the pitch and yaw control can reduce keel area, thus ventral fins can go away, but still the IR signature will be higher than with 2D nozzles.
The F-22 opted for larger vertical fin and rudders but with a 2D nozzles they reduced IR signature and with larger rudders thay achieved higher yaw control and lateral stability.
J-20 at this moment has more a F-35 configuration, since the lack of TVC nozzles and flat nozzles increases a bit more IR signature and restrict more supercruise and superagility.
The canard might allow a bit better agility if well designed than F-35 though in terms of AoA response, but definitively a TVC nozzles will improve the whole aircraft far beyond F-35 and make it closer to F-22.
So you're saying that a J-20 + supercruise + conventional nozzles = hot, but J-20 + supercruise + TVC = cooler.
Okay. But I don't understand why a nozzle will be cooler just because it can vector thrust.
cgi
Gorgeous Dude, and Mig , I really, really, like these ventral fins, to be perfectly frank they minimize transonic roll off, and even with TVC, it is way better to have a sound basic platform. The only tailess aircraft that I know of the B-2, doesn't do the rock and roll kind of flying that will be expected of J-20, Dr. Songs paper stated they examined tailess, with tip rudders etc, but went with this configuration in case the TVC failed, they wanted the pilot to be able to recover the aircraft. Kinda makes it look like a 60 chevy with the big fins, love it.
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