J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

MiG-29 said:

Mikhail Pogosyan is not belittling the J-20 as you most think, i have seen most of Russians comments about the J-20, people like Makeinko or Pogyosan only mean this, the J-20 is in the same stage of development of the S-37 or MiG1.44 because they think China lacks the current engine design expertise to really finish the J-20 as a fifth generation.

I do not know but up what i know China has no TVC nozzles on production jets or test aircraft and Russia does, the Su-30MKI are already in production, the same is the AL-41 for the Su-35S. the 117S does allow supercruise, i do not think China at this moment has a supercruising engine on any J-10.

So the J-10B is still uncapable to supercruise as the latest Su-35S.
Russian has even the MiG-29OVT and had the Su-37 with TVC nozzles
if we are honest, China is behind in engine technology and the engine technology is the core of 3S of the 4s for a J-20, supermaneouvrability, supercruise and STOL are engine results, the J-20 only has stealth.

So what Mikhail Pogosyan really means, is the J-20 is still an unfinishied product to impress the West, is not coincidence Gates visit to China was few days before the unveiling of the J-20, nobody can say the Chinese tested the J-20 the same day, that was just a propaganda move.

If China wants to allow people to take pictures of the J-20 is an attempt done deliveratly.

So he means the J-20 is more propaganda than real substance unless they develope some core technologies, and that includes an engine like the new T50 or 117S

but true also the russians are doing propaganda and boasting, so it most be taken with a grain of salt

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MiG-29 said:

Mikhail Pogosyan is not belittling the J-20 as you most think, i have seen most of Russians comments about the J-20, people like Makeinko or Pogyosan only mean this, the J-20 is in the same stage of development of the S-37 or MiG1.44 because they think China lacks the current engine design expertise to really finish the J-20 as a fifth generation.

I do not know but up what i know China has no TVC nozzles on production jets or test aircraft and Russia does, the Su-30MKI are already in production, the same is the AL-41 for the Su-35S. the 117S does allow supercruise, i do not think China at this moment has a supercruising engine on any J-10.

So the J-10B is still uncapable to supercruise as the latest Su-35S.
Russian has even the MiG-29OVT and had the Su-37 with TVC nozzles
if we are honest, China is behind in engine technology and the engine technology is the core of 3S of the 4s for a J-20, supermaneouvrability, supercruise and STOL are engine results, the J-20 only has stealth.

So what Mikhail Pogosyan really means, is the J-20 is still an unfinishied product to impress the West, is not coincidence Gates visit to China was few days before the unveiling of the J-20, nobody can say the Chinese tested the J-20 the same day, that was just a propaganda move.

If China wants to allow people to take pictures of the J-20 is an attempt done deliveratly.

So he means the J-20 is more propaganda than real substance unless they develope some core technologies, and that includes an engine like the new T50 or 117S

but true also the russians are doing propaganda and boasting, so it most be taken with a grain of salt

Click to expand...

johnqh said:

View attachment 5385

Testing the control surfaces.

Edit: It was an animated GIF. Attachment made it a JPG. How can I upload GIF?

Click to expand...

MiG-29 said:

Mikhail Pogosyan is not belittling the J-20 as you most think, i have seen most of Russians comments about the J-20, people like Makeinko or Pogyosan only mean this, the J-20 is in the same stage of development of the S-37 or MiG1.44 because they think China lacks the current engine design expertise to really finish the J-20 as a fifth generation.

Click to expand...

I do not know but up what i know China has no TVC nozzles on production jets or test aircraft and Russia does, the Su-30MKI are already in production, the same is the AL-41 for the Su-35S. the 117S does allow supercruise, i do not think China at this moment has a supercruising engine on any J-10.

Click to expand...

So the J-10B is still uncapable to supercruise as the latest Su-35S.
Russian has even the MiG-29OVT and had the Su-37 with TVC nozzles
if we are honest, China is behind in engine technology and the engine technology is the core of 3S of the 4s for a J-20, supermaneouvrability, supercruise and STOL are engine results, the J-20 only has stealth.

Click to expand...

So what Mikhail Pogosyan really means, is the J-20 is still an unfinishied product to impress the West, is not coincidence Gates visit to China was few days before the unveiling of the J-20, nobody can say the Chinese tested the J-20 the same day, that was just a propaganda move.

Click to expand...

If China wants to allow people to take pictures of the J-20 is an attempt done deliveratly.

Click to expand...

So he means the J-20 is more propaganda than real substance unless they develope some core technologies, and that includes an engine like the new T50 or 117S

Click to expand...

but true also the russians are doing propaganda and boasting, so it most be taken with a grain of salt

Click to expand...

Bltizo said:

I don't know what else he's said, but the fact he said it was a "demonstrator" certainly shows he is ignorant, or at least he's full of bullcr*p.

J-20 is not in the same stage of development as S-37 or Mig 1.44. It's in the same stage of development as the PAK FA is, if not a little further given its attention to detail.



That's nice, I never knew you needed supercruising engines on a pre flying 4th generation aircraft to build supercruising engines for a 5th generation aircraft. Oh wait you don't.



To be honest, J-20 will have supermanouverability, supercruise and STOL and stealth, as well as sensor fusion, so.... err wait that's 5S. my bad.
You have no proof J-20 will not feature engines powerful enough and with TVC to support supermanouverability and supercruise, and STOL. Also the 4S term came from the PLAAF directly. Why do you think they would state in black and white "THIS PLANE WILL HAVE THESE CAPABILITIES" if the plane in the end doesnt?



Let's say it was a propaganda move to fly J-20 when Gates went to China, but J-20 is still being test flown now. Why still test fly it now if the whole plane was for propaganda?



Of course. It means that they are not as secretive and wary of allowing their enemies to know their "top" capabilities and is part of the opening up of the PLA in general.



How on earth did you derive that from his simple claim that J-20 was a "demonstrator"?
Unless there are other claims that he has made before.



Yep, propaganda and boasting usually tastes better with some salt sprinkled on top.

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MiG-29 said:

watch the document and draw your conclusion, and prove me China has a current TVC nozzle engine flying on a current deployed fighter, Russia has the Su-35S and the Su-30MKI[video=youtube;gpifTCL7D7A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpifTCL7D7A[/video]

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Bltizo said:

That's nice, I never knew you needed supercruising engines on a pre flying 4th generation aircraft to build supercruising engines for a 5th generation aircraft. Oh wait you don't.

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Bltizo said:

Mig-29, really what you said was not only was J-20 a demonstrator, but also it was a demonstrator for propaganda purposes, and that somehow because it was a demonstrator it meant that the necessary technologies for a 5th generation aircraft are not complete, yet you have no proof they are not complete or at least will not be ready for the final aircraft.

Let me say this again, you have NO PROOF. That being said, we do not have proof either (depending on whether you would take the standard reliable sources onboard), but in this case you are the one with the burden, and simply comparing what Russia did and with what we can see China is doing now is BS.

Everything we've heard is that J-20 is not a demonstrator but a prototype, that it will come into service anywhere beyond 2015, and it will come with its 4S. The first batch may not be supercruise capable, but the final product definitely will.
Again I will repeat, it is NOT A DEMONSTRATOR, there is nothing to suggest it is, everything we've heard from reputable sources say it is a prototype, the PLAAF is not known for building expensive demonstrators, there is no need for a demonstrator because all the technologies necessary for the final fighter are in the pipeline and near ready.

Geddit?

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