J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

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Hyperwarp

Hyperwarp

Captain
Air Force Brat said:
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There was no reason to use it in Iraq or Ahghanistan, as there was no high risk environment that needed to be penetrated....
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Exactly! It an Air-dominance fighter. Not a bomb truck. But one excuse used against the F-22 used by politicians, media etc, is; not being used in the current wars.

Air Force Brat said:
......As of today we have 185 Raptors, 1/3 of the number to serve the Hi on a Hi/Lo plan with the F-35 as the Lo. The Raptors are critical to maintaining air superiority in a high risk environment, and the only aircraft with the speed and stealth necessary to do so with a reasonable chance of success. To suggest that the Raptor is incapable of its mission is ludicrous...
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When did I ever say it was incapable of its mission?
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As I said, its an AIR-DOMINANCE fighter. It was designed to go up against the very best the Soviet Union could throw at. It currently has no equal. It is actually massively over-kill for 99% of countries, but still legitimately needed for the USA so it can have an edge over that 1%. The F-22's importance for its intended role is not an issue. To say that I suggested the F-22 wasn't capable of its intended role makes me go
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Air Force Brat said:
... to suggest it wasn't capable of serving in Iraq or Afghanistan is just internet blowby...
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Iraq or Afghanistan? capable of doing what? drop a few SDBs, drop a few 1000 lbs JDAMs?
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Remember, F-22 became F/A-22 and then back to F-22?

Air Force Brat said:
...The folks building the Pak-FA and J-20 would be the first to disagree with you, and the high bar that has been set for the J-20 gives you some idea of their thoughts on the Raptor.
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And? PAK-FA and J-20 are for same role as the F-22 especially the J-20, which is primarily A-to-A with some internal A-to-G load. PAK-FA is more multirole. Its weapons bays are designed such away (But there is a trade-off because it can carry only 4 A-to-A missiles in the main weapons bays)
 
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kwaigonegin

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Scratch said:
Well Brat, aerobatics aircraft have different requirements I'd say. Most notably, they're far slower and have less requirement for stealth, so the aerodynamic requirements can be fullfilled almost without compromise. Plus, on aircraft with a single vert stab, it's rather strange to have that canted :)
For all I know the vert stabs on the F-22 are actually smaller in area than they were on the prototype (and I think you can see that looking at pictures form a similar angle), though they are further back.
If you're trying to yaw in high AoA / slow speed an all moving vert stab may be more usefull to enforce that movement, as in a conventional stab you still have that fixed controll surface part wich I imagine wants the plane to weatherwane back into the wind somewhat. I can't really say if it's better for yaw stability in other flight regimes, though.
Then again, the J-20 also has those vert fins extending down below the vert stabs, providing additional controll. So in the end, the total area might no be that much smaller than that of the Raptor's vert stab.

The YF-22 was the more agile plane I think, while the YF-23 was apparently more stealthy & faster, but also considered to be more high risk, wich is I think were the believe of "having settled for the F-22" comes from.
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Not saying that the YF-23 is a better plane etc BUT trust me when I say when it comes to defense procurement politics has as much to do if not more so when choosing one platform over the other. Technical merits or even logic often times lose out to politics.
Unfortunately this is the nature of the vast military industrial complex of the US nowadays. The decision makers and certainly the lobbyists in DC most times have very little to no technical merits when they lobby for one defense contract over the other especially one that is multi-billion dollar in nature.
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Wow! Thats what you call up close and personal. It does illustrate what engineer had said about all the LO shaping of the inlets and various doors and panels, it appears to be much more LO than I would have guessed from the early pictures. It also illustrates kwaigonegen that everybody plays the defense marketing game, but I find your generalization of the "vast military industrial complex" rather sensationalist than descriptive. With all do respect sir.
 
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Player99

Junior Member
Air Force Brat said:
Wow! Thats what you call up close and personal. It does illustrate what engineer had said about all the LO shaping of the inlets and various doors and panels, it appears to be much more LO than I would have guessed from the early pictures. It also illustrates kwaigonegen that everybody plays the defense marketing game, but I find your generalization of the "vast military industrial complex" rather sensationalist than descriptive. With all do respect sir.
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Brat，what is this kwaigonegen?
 
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