J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

Totoro said:

Just a thought. J20 was from the beginning seen as a pretty finished product. Its rear part looks like a finished design, the engine nozzles have those serrated edges, whcih could indicate effort was put into making them like that for operational use.

On the other hand, pakfa always had quite unfinished looking engines, all uncovered, without even the slightest effort to lower the rcs. but, at tha same time, info emerged that sukhoi (or engine firm) patented some new nozzles. That makes me think it is quite possible pakfa will get new engines with new nozzles and new underbelly cover which may end up being fairly stealthy.

While on the other hand j20 will be 'stuck' with the existing nozzle design. At least up to some upgrade project in the future.

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If need be, the J-20 would require much less modification to its rear end compared to the Pakfa. Most of the work will be on the new engine and its (vectoring) nozzles, with the new and stealthier engine fairing being the easier part of the work. If you look at the rear end of J-20 fuselage, there's really just a small section that need to be modified to accomodate the new engine and to further improve on the stealth shaping. That's if it's decided the resulting stealth improvement is significant enough to warrant the effort and additional cost.

Sub-systems are much much more important than the airframe itself. The USAF scare countries around the world not because of the air frame, but because of the training and especially the subsystems. I wonder if the PLAAF has terrain following radar yet.

pugachev_diver said:

Sub-systems are much much more important than the airframe itself. The USAF scare countries around the world not because of the air frame, but because of the training and especially the subsystems. I wonder if the PLAAF has terrain following radar yet.

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The difference between the Chinese and the most advanced Western Technology is just a piece of paper window in between. When someone just poked through the paper, no one will stop China. China is on the edge to poke through paper windows of every direction.

pugachev_diver said:

It's not that intimidating. The Americans reached this level about 20 years ago. J20 is on par with F22, as Type 99 modified is on par with M1A2. The rest can only match what the Americans have achieved in the late 70s

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j20 is not on par with F22. Not even close (aerodynamic wise and the fact that it is a project 20 years ahead in time, which provided more than enough time for the plane to mature in all aspects)

neither type 99 is on par with M1A2

China has nothing on par with anything in the US military. With russia definatly, but not with the US

A.Man said:

The difference between the Chinese and the most advanced Western Technology is just a piece of paper window in between. When someone just poked through the paper, no one will stop China. China is on the edge to poke through paper windows of every direction.

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care to elaborate ?

^Dear god, let's not go there...

j20 is not on par with F22. Not even close (aerodynamic wise and the fact that it is a project 20 years ahead in time, which provided more than enough time for the plane to mature in all aspects)

neither type 99 is on par with M1A2

China has nothing on par with anything in the US military. With russia definatly, but not with the US

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China has a much faster supercomputer than what U.S. has. Aerodynamic calculations require tremendous computational power, exactly what a supercomputer will offer. J20, with the help of supercomputer and incorporation of canards, I would say it probably has better aerodynamic characteristics than F22.

Only U.S. and China successfully performed mid-course interception of ICBMs with a non-nuclear armed interceptor. Russia may or may not have the technology. They never tried for sure. Your concept about Chinese technology is awfully obsolete.

Bltizo said:

^Dear god, let's not go there...

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yay a voice of reason..
come on, just because the us churns out some really nice technologies doesn't mean it's inhabited by some super, hyper-intelligent intellectuals. Nor is china for catching up with it. Hell, even Norway beats the US in some military fields and exports lots of military hardware to the US. Doesn't mean we'll rule the world. Let's try to realize the US isn't some kind of unreachable standard, nor is China an infinite unstoppable force. They're just two countries.

pugachev_diver said:

Sub-systems are much much more important than the airframe itself. The USAF scare countries around the world not because of the air frame, but because of the training and especially the subsystems. I wonder if the PLAAF has terrain following radar yet.

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You are behind by 10 years of course they have terrain following radar. That is how low level interdiction fighter like JH 7A is used in maritime mode of attack.

Fly low and then pop up ,launch the missile and run away as fast as you can
Dong Dong from this website wrote well description of JH7A


The JH-7A is fitted with a JL-10A pulse-Doppler multi-functional fire-control radar with 11 working modes including medium-range interception, close-range air combat, surface/sea attack, navigation, etc. The X-band radar has a maximum detection range of 80km and tracking range of 40km, with the “look-down, shoot-down” capability. The original analogue FBW on the JH-7 has also been replaced by a dual-redundancy digital FBW system, which is correlated with the aircraft’s radar to enable the terrain-following capability over the land and the ability to deliver the precision strike weapons. The JH-7A also features an improved ‘glass cockpit’, with a head-up display (HUD) and two large LCD multi-functional displays (MFD).

KLJ 10A Radar


Low level attack using Terrain following is outdated as ground attack mode because of the wide spread use of Manpad and lethality of the newer mandpad . British suffer high casualty during operation Iraki freedom. That they have to stop the low level attack

Chinese subsytem is as good as anybody these days
A PAC programme officer told Jane's : "I have flown with this radar and with other models that we have looked at fitting to this aircraft, such as the Thales RC400, and the Chinese radar is every bit as capable as its contemporary analogs."

The USAF scare countries around the world not because of the air frame, but because of the training and especially the subsystems.

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It would be more accurate to the USAF is feared because of incredible training and all the support systems like AWACs, satellite intelligence, cruise missiles that take out SAM sites, and air-to-air refueling.

I think J-20 while a big step forward for China, will be nothing compare to the American F-22. There are many details, subsystems, that we don't know of that makes a huge difference when in combat. F-22 is design for all aspect stealth, while from the look of it, J-20 is only design for frontal stealth, with rear part of the design looking like a mess. So in a off chance that J-20 do face F-22 in combat, and assuming J-20's frontal stealth is as good as F-22's (doubtful) - the 2 planes will go into dogfight when they can't detect each other until its too late, and guess what, with rear stealth management a mess, J-20's ass is grass because it has little rear stealth compare to the F-22's, so it can't hide from it.

And with supercruise speed of Mach 1.82, there is little hope for J-20 to outrun F-22 in any type of scenario. That's not even factor in the superior training US pilots go through.