J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

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Speeder

Junior Member
{ Gate: "Mr. Hu, I heard that your G4 fighter just had the first flight?"
Hu: (Didn't we fly months ago? What's going on? I need to ask.....) }

Gate: ( Hu looks puzzled... iwhat's the matter? is that my blunder? darn it, what was the year of those photos Pantagon sent me again?...

LOL


Actually my bucks are firmly with Vesicle on this one: except they can't possiblely pre-test actual Space Walk and Moonlanding, CCP would test anything and everything MULTIPLE times to make sure it won't loss face on its public "debut". ( and which idiot really believes for a sec that China would debut it on top of millions Chengdu residents, without having a clue, or a-yellow-book-thick past stats, that both the design and the engine would work properly?)

So the old story allover again :

that the US/Gates knew that ( with probably half of all of its spysats on China), Hu knew that Gates knew it and pretended that he didn't know ; Gates knew that Hu knew and pretending... Hu knew that Gates knew that he was pretending but still pretended he didn't know ... , ... , ... --- in IQ term, basically it's called the game of "100 Vs. 105". ROFL
 
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airsuperiority

Captain
Re: Saw-toothed doors don't matter if engine compressor blades are exposed

kwaigonegin said:
I agree completely. Most westerners failed to realize the significance of "saving face" in the chinese culture. It is so ingrained in their mentality that to be publicly embarassed, in many ways is worst than death itself.

The Chinese pride can sometimes be a liability. They've put businessmen to death not so much because of the crime itself BUT in no small way because they brought shame to the country, company etc. The Japanese phyche is not too different either.
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yup. well chinese let these mistakes occur if it will help them improve next time..but for most part, we seemed to know that the world is trying to use every way they can to look down on us, and we dont want to prove them right
 
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airsuperiority

Captain
Re: Saw-toothed doors don't matter if engine compressor blades are exposed

Centrist said:
I know how important face is, that is why we were all shocked that the test flight was so public. But all I am saying is that if it flew before, it wasnt flown in Chengdu. Unless they had a way of dismantling the plane, transporting it, rebuilding it, flying it, without a single soul noticing, I think it is unlikely. We have people on this forum who have connections, I'd find it hard to believe that they missed the secret test flight. They still kept the landing gear down in the latest flight, which also indicates that it was the first. But again, who knows.
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or few the plane away at night?
 
C

Centrist

Junior Member
Re: Saw-toothed doors don't matter if engine compressor blades are exposed

vesicles said:
we may have people with connections and someone on this forum may also know about the supposed secret test flight in advance. But no one would want to risk exposing a national secret by revealing an actual secret test flight to the public... That would potentially be a treason. As a matter of fact, one of the rules of this forum is not to reveal actual secrets on the internet. We all know how such a person would be treated in any nation. China has too many such examples to list, but in the US, we have Dr. Wen Ho-Lee who got 9 month jail for revealing nothing and only bringing his own work back home... Imagine how our beloved fellow forum member would be treated if he/she actually let us know about the secret test flight...

Let's face it. One sure way of keeping a secret is to limit the number of people knowing it. This means it would be extremely easy to find out who leaks the info IF it got leaked. Anyone who might have a knowledge of such high-profile event must be pretty high-up, which means this person has a lot to lose for exposing a national secret. No one would be dumb enough to risk losing everything he/she has, including his/her own life, just to satisfy our curiosity. For a couple million dollars, maybe, but definitely not for free by letting us know on the forum.

Transporting a plane without anyone knowing is an easy task for a govn't. They could also simply do the initial assembly near their secret test site in Gobi. I think we can all agree that moving parts is an easy task.
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I still think that it is unlikely. But hey, one day hopefully we will find out. It is always possible (in fact I prefer your theory, that means the plane is further along than most of us believe).

I did always find it strange that the WS-1X version flew first, seems to make no sense to fly and experimental plane with an experimental engine in public. That is...assuming that WS-1X actually exists and it isn't some modified AL-31F.

But even so, it was late 2009 when that Chinese general spilled the beans. Perhaps it flew in early 2010. But that would mean it only has a year of flight testing under its belt, so it isn't in the "late stages" of flight testing, it's still pretty early.

Heck, maybe the J-10B and J-20 first flights occurred at the same time, they displayed the J-10B out in the open at Chengdu so that any rumors of a flight or new aircraft were immediately associated with the J-10B. Sort of a decoy... to bring our attention to the lesser project. That too is unlikely, but I like to think outside the box.
 
AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Re: Saw-toothed doors don't matter if engine compressor blades are exposed

kwaigonegin said:
I agree completely. Most westerners failed to realize the significance of "saving face" in the chinese culture. It is so ingrained in their mentality that to be publicly embarassed, in many ways is worst than death itself.

The Chinese pride can sometimes be a liability. They've put businessmen to death not so much because of the crime itself BUT in no small way because they brought shame to the country, company etc. The Japanese phyche is not too different either.
Click to expand...

I can tell you that "saving face" is well known in the US to the point they use as a stereotype and as something strange and foreign. The West has their version of saving face and it's called ego. The only difference is in the name.
 
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airsuperiority

Captain
Re: Saw-toothed doors don't matter if engine compressor blades are exposed

AssassinsMace said:
I can tell you that "saving face" is well known in the US to the point they use as a stereotype and as something strange and foreign. The West has their version of saving face and it's called ego. The only difference is in the name.
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psychological terminology calls that self-enhancement, which means to compare with the lesser or in a way so that they feel better about themselves. sources: my psychology textbook which im reading in preparation for my mt tmr
 
Martian

Martian

Senior Member
Ranking engine stealth for Russian T-50, F-18 E/F, French Rafale, and China's J-20

qBoKk.jpg

The Russian T-50 engine layout is very similar to other Sukhoi aircraft, such as Su-30 or Su-27. It is a straight air-inlet. The Russian T-50 air intake, with fully-exposed engine fan blades, pushes its RCS above the French Rafale.

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Engine fan blockers still result in a non-stealthy aircraft

An engine fan blocker is not very useful. It can reduce a portion of the exposed fan blades. However, a slapped-together solution still results in a non-stealthy aircraft.

7Zjf5.jpg

American F-18E fan blocker. Good try, but you're still not stealthy.

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VVufS.gif

Roughly 90% of the French Rafale's engine compressor blades are hidden from view. This is the reason that the French Rafale receives a 1 m2 RCS when it's "clean" and not carrying any external weapons. This assessment is determined by the reputable GlobalSecurity.

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glctV.jpg

China's J-20 is the new gold standard in front-profile stealth. The J-20 has both a serpentine air-duct and DSI bump to hide the engine compressor blades. Due to its older design, the F-22 lacks DSI bumps.
 
rhino123

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
challenge said:
F-18E despite the exposed "fan blade",carry 35kg. of RAM ,her over all RCS is 0.50m,not bad.
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What make you so sure that the F-18E had an RCS that is 0.5m2? So far there are various claims from the internet and all of them are different.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
claims that the RCS is 0.75m2
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
(one of the member - Antibody claimed that the RCS is 0.1m2

And these are only two sources from the net. There are many more.

Plus F-18E is never a true stealth fighter, not even designed to be one. So why are this fighter being listed here, it is not even in the same class as J-20, F-22, F-35 and even the T-50.
 
Quickie

Quickie

Colonel
Re: Ranking engine stealth for Russian T-50, F-18 E/F, French Rafale, and China's J-2

Martian said:
qBoKk.jpg

The Russian T-50 engine layout is very similar to other Sukhoi aircraft, such as Su-30 or Su-27. It is a straight air-inlet. The Russian T-50 air intake, with fully-exposed engine fan blades, pushes its RCS above the French Rafale.

----------

Engine fan blockers still result in a non-stealthy aircraft

An engine fan blocker is not very useful. It can reduce a portion of the exposed fan blades. However, a slapped-together solution still results in a non-stealthy aircraft.

7Zjf5.jpg

American F-18E fan blocker. Good try, but you're still not stealthy.

----------

VVufS.gif

Roughly 90% of the French Rafale's engine compressor blades are hidden from view. This is the reason that the French Rafale receives a 1 m2 RCS when it's "clean" and not carrying any external weapons. This assessment is determined by the reputable GlobalSecurity.

----------

glctV.jpg

China's J-20 is the new gold standard in front-profile stealth. The J-20 has both a serpentine air-duct and DSI bump to hide the engine compressor blades. Due to its older design, the F-22 lacks DSI bumps.
Click to expand...

Outside of the different method of inlet airflow control, the F-22 doesn't require DSI bumps because its wider nose and the inner blades of its intakes alone are able to hide the engine blades. J-20 requires the DSI bump to block the engine blades from direct line of sight because of its narrower nose and the missing inner blades that's present on conventional intakes. The question is which of these two arrangement will be stealthier?
 
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