J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

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tphuang

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How sure of this are we ? If i remember the photo was captioned saying it was the first test flight of the new year. Maybe the answer is a lot simpler then we think and 155 was the tally at the end of 2022. That number would not have seen low if you made the prediction at the start of 2022 (maybe even on the high side). It only seems low now because of our erroneous earlier prediction after Zuhai when we thought they had 208+ or whatever it was.
Building on this how long does flight testing typically last ? They could potentially have a lot more airframes built then have passed flight tests.
Because we know PLAAF would never show us the real production number they are at. The post said that recently there was a first test flight of the new year. It doesn't say that particular aircraft they are showing is from that first test flight. It's likely there was delivery at end of last year and that aircraft was from that delivery. I put delivered number at end of 2022 at around 170.

I believe the 100 J-20 a year claim was made about 2023 by someone on social media. We will find out in a year how close they get to that. I think it's reasonable to say they produced about 60 to 70 in 2022. I think it's also reasonable to say that more facility has come online recently which potentially allows for higher production rate in 2023.

I also believe that PLAAF is no longer buying J-10Cs, so that has also helped J-20 production rate.
 

ACuriousPLAFan

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No official source, a good friend of mine said something that I could not believe. He said, China produced almost 800 pieces of WS-10 series engines last year.
Just curious, is your good friend close to/an insider of the WS-10's production line?

Either way, judging by the fact where the production of the J-10 series and the J-11 series have pretty much stopped by now, that means only the J-16s and J-20s are still in active production.

Both the J-16s and J-20s uses 3 engines per airframe IIRC, i.e. 2 engines installed, 1 engine spare.

800 WS-10 engines divided by 3 equals to around 266 airframes of J-16s and J-20s.

3 questions:
1. What are the production rates of J-16 and J-20?
2. Could some of the WS-10s been used for re-engine the J-10s and J-11s?
3. Are the newer J-15 units using WS-10 as well, since we saw one with WS-10s instead of AL-31s last year?
 

Totoro

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Ok, thats one indication j10c procurement slowed down or stopped. If another year passes and no news of another unit getting j10c emerges, yet in the same timeframe we get photo evidence of other units getting j20 and j16 - then it will be fairly safe to assume j10c procurement indeed ended.
 

weig2000

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Slightly off topic. The SSN/SSBN acquisition numbers are just as, if not even more important in the near to medium term as well.

Somewhat off topic, so this would be my last on this topic.

Nope. Not even close. Simply because they will not reach sufficient numbers to make a huge impact in the balance of power within the decade. SSN/SSBN and CVN are surely strategically important in the longer term.

On the other hand, J-20 is here and its production is in full swing. Never in the history of PRC has PLAAF possess such as a fully indigenous, world-class fighter aircraft that is decisively important in the likely battle scenarios of the decade, both in quality and numerical terms. In fact, J-20's production rate can be cranked up further if they want in short order, and the upgrade is right around the corner too.

Meanwhile, we know the "wind farms" in the Gobi desert is under full construction.

They each will form the conventional and strategic deterrence respectively in relatively short terms, with sufficient numbers.
 
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Blitzo

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How sure of this are we ? If i remember the photo was captioned saying it was the first test flight of the new year.

I believe that image of 07156 didn't have that caption? I remember it was associated with the new year but didn't claim to be the first flight of the year (but perhaps my memory is wrong).

Edit : ah yes, I remember now it was for the new year of the Gregorian calendar, where they had that picture associated. There was some different news around Chinese new years.

Of course keep in mind it likely wasn't the first flight of that particular airframe CB07156 given it is already painted (new production J-20s tend to fly in primer first), and the picture may not necessarily even be related to the statement itself.



Maybe the answer is a lot simpler then we think and 155 was the tally at the end of 2022. That number would not have seen low if you made the prediction at the start of 2022 (maybe even on the high side). It only seems low now because of our erroneous earlier prediction after Zuhai when we thought they had 208+ or whatever it was.
Building on this how long does flight testing typically last ? They could potentially have a lot more airframes built then have passed flight tests.


It would be unprecedented for them to release an image of the actual "most recent" aircraft produced at a time when that was accurate. That is to say, at the time that the image of CB07156 was released, it serves as a foundational minimum for us, but is very unlikely to be a maximum.

And in addition to above, even if we assume that CB07156 did make CACs first flight of the new year, it doesn't mean it was CB07156's maiden flight (given it was already painted), and doesn't mean that it represents the maximum of the produced aircraft either. It could very well just be the aircraft which happened to fly first in the new year.
 
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by78

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A nice image for the weekend.

52699618450_9b3cece01d_k.jpg
 
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