J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

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free_6ix9ine

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Well there's also the rumour of J-20 now being produced with a TVC engine from NPO Saturn. So a TVC and a higher thrust WS-10. Sounds like the WS-15 is delayed according to these two insider rumours.

I will call BS on the TVC engine from NPO Saturn rumor for a couple of reasons. WS-10A is around the same class as the AL-41, and also can be upgraded with TVC, the only engine that is better than the AL41 that russia has is the izdeliye 30, which is still in development and not likely to be exported to China due to IP issues.
 

free_6ix9ine

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But it is not up to the same standards as F-119 or F-135. The core of the engine is still that of a WS-10 no matter how you modify it.

It depends on what you mean by "Core". If you swap in better materials with higher temp tolerance, then you can run the engine hotter with more thrust with no changes to the design. Don't be mislead by labeling, F-135 is essentially an upgraded F-119, which descends from the F-100. Same thing goes for the AL41, AL31, which all came from the AL21.

I wouldn't be suprised if the WS-15 is essentially a WS-10 with more advanced materials. So instead of a massive jump from the WS-10 to WS-15, China is taking a more gradual approach by continually upgrading the WS-10 until it reaches the desired thrust of the WS-15.
 

ougoah

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Calm down. I'm just repeating what was discussed to add weight to the whole WS-15 is not even on the horizon idea. Who knows. I've been reading a lot of this coming from Chinese posters, some of them likely government mouthpieces. They are talking about two "new" J-20 developments and that is the J-20B with Russian TVC and the other is newer WS-10 with more thrust. No idea how truthful either one is but like I said 10 pages ago, Minnie Chan (and now others) rumous so take it as you will. All of this could be hinting at some new WS-15 delays. Or it's a total troll and WS-15 is on schedule, who knows.
 

free_6ix9ine

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Calm down. I'm just repeating what was discussed to add weight to the whole WS-15 is not even on the horizon idea. Who knows. I've been reading a lot of this coming from Chinese posters, some of them likely government mouthpieces. They are talking about two "new" J-20 developments and that is the J-20B with Russian TVC and the other is newer WS-10 with more thrust. No idea how truthful either one is but like I said 10 pages ago, Minnie Chan (and now others) rumous so take it as you will. All of this could be hinting at some new WS-15 delays. Or it's a total troll and WS-15 is on schedule, who knows.

I agree that the WS-15 is not ready for service in the near future, thats why there is continual upgrade to the WS-10 which imo is part of the development process of the WS-15
 

Figaro

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Calm down. I'm just repeating what was discussed to add weight to the whole WS-15 is not even on the horizon idea. Who knows. I've been reading a lot of this coming from Chinese posters, some of them likely government mouthpieces. They are talking about two "new" J-20 developments and that is the J-20B with Russian TVC and the other is newer WS-10 with more thrust. No idea how truthful either one is but like I said 10 pages ago, Minnie Chan (and now others) rumous so take it as you will. All of this could be hinting at some new WS-15 delays. Or it's a total troll and WS-15 is on schedule, who knows.
Professor and former 624 chief engineer/designer Liu Daxiang said the WS-15 would achieve design certification around 2021 to 2023. If I'm not mistaken, mass production can only begin after that. In other words, it is still some time before the WS-15 can become operational. If the PLAAF believes that the TVC system is mature enough, then why not install the system given the Taihang's increased thrust and reliability? This would provide immediate maneuverability benefits to the J-20 and let pilots familiarize with TVC.
 

stannislas

Junior Member
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Professor and former 624 chief engineer/designer Liu Daxiang said the WS-15 would achieve design certification around 2021 to 2023. If I'm not mistaken, mass production can only begin after that. In other words, it is still some time before the WS-15 can become operational. If the PLAAF believes that the TVC system is mature enough, then why not install the system given the Taihang's increased thrust and reliability? This would provide immediate maneuverability benefits to the J-20 and let pilots familiarize with TVC.
Essentially, money. Please understand, PLAAF don’t have infinite resources, and they still have mass 2nd gen fighters need to be replaced. J-20 is probably the most important project, but far not the major one, there are still tones of other places need more money to go in.

Well, that is the big picture. So from a slightly technical angel to understand this issue is because TVC will still loss thrust, and j-20 at the same time is maneuverable enough for their current mission. If I only have dozens of J-20 in hand, why would I risk them in dogfighting with other fighters instead of doing what it supposed to and d the best, hit and go? Thus, given how little amount j-20 they have, why bother?

Also, follow the same idea, when ws-15 is out, j-20 turns in to mass production, more pilots will transfer from 3rd or even 2nd gen to it, which is a complete re-education process, and a good time to learn dog fight in TVC.
 

Figaro

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Are you making this up or do you have a source?
I missed this earlier. I saw some sources saying this on CJDBY some time ago ... I believe one of them was Gongke. Why would I be making this up lol?
 

by78

General
I missed this earlier. I saw some sources saying this on CJDBY some time ago ... I believe one of them was Gongke. Why would I be making this up lol?

You should be asking yourself that question, given this, this, and this. So yeah, I doubt you read anything credible on 'altered' specs for WS-15, or at the very least, you misread it.
 
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