J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

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latenlazy

Brigadier
That’s not true. 16 tonnes is the maximum thrust achieved via afterburner. The military thrust is far lower than that of actual fifth gen engines like F-119.
Dry thrust should also improve if they can get wet thrust to 16 tonnes. This relationship is mostly linear. It’s very likely that the way they’re getting these improvements is by running the engine hotter.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
But it is not up to the same standards as F-119 or F-135. The core of the engine is still that of a WS-10 no matter how you modify it.
The Su-57’s engines uses the same core as the AL-31 but has a dry thrust over 90 kN. Just because an engine shares the same core doesn’t mean it’s locked into the same dry thrust performance.
 
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siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
The Su-57’s engines uses the same core as the AL-31 but has a dry thrust over 90 kN. Just because an engineer shares the same core doesn’t mean it’s locked into the same dry thrust performance.

Then they'd have to make compromises in service life or fuel consumption or high velocity performance (due to by-pass ratio). There is no such thing as free lunch.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Then they'd have to make compromises in service life or fuel consumption. There is no such thing as free lunch.
As I said in my first reply post edit they’re probably looking to run the engine a lot hotter, and they’re probably able to do so because they’re swapping to more heat tolerant materials (or at least that’s the lowest hanging fruit they have). Fuel consumption at higher thrust is probably where they’re eating the penalty, which I think makes a lot of sense since they don’t need to always run on maximum performance for operations, so that penalty is only incurred when they run the engine at those higher thrusts.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Does this imply further delay in the WS-15 or is it still expected to be in mass production around 2025?
Who knows. It might be good to have as an option in case the WS-15 is delayed, or it might be that they can get quick turnaround on a WS-10 variant to meaningfully cover enough batches of new J-20s to be worth the effort before switching to the WS-15.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Well there's also the rumour of J-20 now being produced with a TVC engine from NPO Saturn. So a TVC and a higher thrust WS-10. Sounds like the WS-15 is delayed according to these two insider rumours.
 
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