J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

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BoraTas

BoraTas

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siegecrossbow said:
Moves don’t matter much nowadays. 90+ percent of engagements will be BVR.
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Maneuverability is still important for minimizing enemy effective range and maximizing your own but, as you said, definitely secondary. I would rate the radar as a more important piece of equipment than the engine for a modern aircraft. My only concern would be stealth versus stealth. It is highly likely that such engagements will happen below a 40 km distance. At that distance turning performance in high-subsonic regime can be very significant in terms of missile effective range.
 
C

CMP

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BoraTas said:
Maneuverability is still important for minimizing enemy effective range and maximizing your own but, as you said, definitely secondary. I would rate the radar as a more important piece of equipment than the engine for a modern aircraft. My only concern would be stealth versus stealth. It is highly likely that such engagements will happen below a 40 km distance. At that distance turning performance in high-subsonic regime can be very significant in terms of missile effective range.
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IMO the J20 shouldn't ever be operating without a KJ500 anyways. In that context, it shouldn't ever come down to a dog fight unless we already screwed up on our end.
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

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BoraTas said:
Maneuverability is still important for minimizing enemy effective range and maximizing your own but, as you said, definitely secondary. I would rate the radar as a more important piece of equipment than the engine for a modern aircraft. My only concern would be stealth versus stealth. It is highly likely that such engagements will happen below a 40 km distance. At that distance turning performance in high-subsonic regime can be very significant in terms of missile effective range.
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I recently read that the J-10C has leveraged the AESA radar’s LPI advantage in a confrontation against a flanker adversary. Basically use the LPI mode to ping the opponent without triggering the RWR until a missile could be cued by the IRST. It worked for a while until the opponent updated their EW suite.

I wonder if this is how stealth versus stealth encounters are likely to go down, if they happen at all.
 
L

latenlazy

Brigadier
siegecrossbow said:
I recently read that the J-10C has leveraged the AESA radar’s LPI advantage in a confrontation against a flanker adversary. Basically use the LPI mode to ping the opponent without triggering the RWR until a missile could be cued by the IRST. It worked for a while until the opponent updated their EW suite.

I wonder if this is how stealth versus stealth encounters are likely to go down, if they happen at all.
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Neither the J-10C nor Flanker are stealthy. You’d first have to be able to detect a stealthy plane in LPI mode at range before you could cue with IRST.


siegecrossbow said:
Moves don’t matter much nowadays. 90+ percent of engagements will be BVR.
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I wouldn’t bet on that. 70% maybe, but I think some people here overstated how much BVR will overtake all A2A mission profiles.
 
Deino

Deino

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ougoah said:
We saw either this video before.

There are (previous to this recent video) two examples of J-20 either showing TVC moves and/or extreme maneuverability. The first was a video showing an extremely high alpha barrel roll climb. Climbing is easy, performing a barrel roll is easy, performing a climbing barrel roll is also easy. This video (Vid 1) shows high alpha barrel roll climb at the very least demonstrating exceptional nose authority at extremely difficult flight regime for nose authority.

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The second video (same as the one in the tweet Deino posted re. WS-15 suggestion) shows in my opinion a much more impressive demonstration that suggests to me like it's using TVC. If it ain't using TVC then hats off and hands together for the CAC aerodynamicists and FCS engineers. It shows the aircraft rolling in basically zero velocity with little to no airflow across control surfaces and yet it rolled around in midair, during stall, and rolled quickly.

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Thanks for that, since I thought it is a new video since it proves it is no TVC involved, simply since those two J-20 were powered by standard AL-31 engines
 
L

latenlazy

Brigadier
Deino said:
By the way, what’s this?

In fact I don’t know but at least by my understanding looks like some sort of TVC maneuver… maybe a surprise for Zhuhai?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572175436783976450
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This is what I wrote about the maneuver when we first saw it.

J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

It's not an engineering model, but it illustrates the kinematic advantages of the J-20's layout. I can get a cardboard model of a vacuum cleaner do the loop de loop if I have sufficient power.
www.sinodefenceforum.com

I believe that the planes in the video are the same ones that performed at the Changchun airshow, since this video came out right before the airshow and seems to be showing the planes practicing their airshow flyby, so this would be without TVC, and with the Al-31s.
 
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