J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

Background check of Beijing A-star.

The company is private owned. It has entered in a dispute with another company. There is an court order (2020) to evaluate an asset of Beijing A-star (for debt payment). Here is the evaluation report.


Also in 2020, the same court ordered restriction of private expenses of all management members including, no personal vacation, no riding on any HSR etc.


I guess it has bankrupted by now.

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It would be a mistake to think that this company is a cheat. The asset in question is a 6 axis CNC machine, so it is quite serious company.

ILikeChina said:

But any mentions about the procurement of two seater J-20? Maybe we can see two seater J-20 replace the production of one seater J-20, just like J-16 replaced the J-11B. However not enough pilots might be one of the limiting factors.

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Two seater J20 has different mission roles than single seat J20, they can work together instead of replacing the other.

Also, lack of pilots in PLAAF is a myth. China has a well established aviation training institution system. Public information revealed that there are 10 aviation universities /collages/academis directly under control of PLAAF.

Also there are hundreds of currently in service pilots have to made do with J7, J8, J11A etc. They could be piloting J20 if more planes are available, that is if they managed to qualify for 5th gen jet with aircraft type conversion training.

tphuang said:

Shilao podcast has said multiple times that the two seater makes use of the latest technologies available. A lot of which were simply not available when they froze the layout of 2011. They consider 2031 to possibly be half a generation ahead of current single seat J-20s. They specifically mentioned internal layout differences vs 2011 when discussing why it was delayed and why it would be more advanced. They also mentioned that it will eventually support capabilities that are currently not possible.

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Yes -- but to clarify, what I mean is that I believe J-20S/serial 2031 would host similar latest technologies to what the latest single seater J-20As have available (i.e.: the ones powered by WS-10, which would have been a result of serial 2021 and 2022).

Putting it another way, between prototype serial 2011, to serial 2017, I suspect there would have been some changes.
And between serial 2017 and the initial first batch of Al-31 powered J-20s and serial 2021 (the first WS-10 powered J-20), there also would have been changes.

And I think that the current in-production WS-10 single seat J-20As, should have basically the same key subsystems and avionics technologies as J-20S, barring of course the subsystems on J-20S to support the second pilot.

More from that podcast.

We will see J-20 units everywhere. It won't just be concentrate on Japan/Taiwan. India will get attention too.

Based on DACT involving J-20s, they realized they have to adjust some of the tactics they previously came up with F-22/F-35. They talked about recent pod that was tested on F-22 . The need for pod goes back to the previous point about challenges in upgrading an older aircraft that froze layout internally a long time ago. Note easy to add certain features like IRST

They said back in 2019, they asked staff at radar show what would be the detection range against F-22 for an anti-stealth radar. The range was a lot longer than they expected. The accuracy is not good enough to guide a missile but definitely good enough to guide a fighter jet to intercept it. I'm not sure China actually knows exactly how stealthy F-22 really is. I'm also not sure how well anti-stealth radar would do against jamming. However, even if the detection range is 1/2 or 1/3 of what they think it is, it's unlikely that F-22/35 or B-21 would be able to go through all of China's air space completely undetected. That imo is the most important part here. As long as they know a VLO aircraft is coming in, there will be ways to handle it and any invading force would have to be very careful with how they come in.

The belief is that with more powerful AESA radar and EO tracker available, it's possible for stealth aircraft to find each other. And that's probably why F-22 would need EW pod to be more invisible.

They consider the new two seater vs the original single seater to be the difference between J-10A and J-10C. A different generation in avionics architecture and capabilities. If there was a new single seater with the new avionics architecture (maybe WS-15 one), it would also be a huge leap forward. They also believe the utility of n additional operator for two seater exceeds the understanding of most Western military watchers who think it's just a UAV controller.

on a personal note, I think we will see an EW version of J-20 and it will have VLO external pod like F-22. And it will have to be a 2 seater to do all the tasks that you'd want a EW aircraft to do. And such a EW aircraft would be very hard to track and be a powerful tool in any SEAD mission.

tphuang said:

on a personal note, I think we will see an EW version of J-20 and it will have VLO external pod like F-22. And it will have to be a 2 seater to do all the tasks that you'd want a EW aircraft to do. And such a EW aircraft would be very hard to track and be a powerful tool in any SEAD mission.

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I wonder when we can see chinese version of AARGM-ER and AGM-158...

ecaedus said:

@tphuang did they mention anything regarding to the capabilities of EOTS-86 vs F35's EOTS? i've always thought it was less capable than F35's because there doesn't seem to be bottom or rear facing windows on EOTS-86 to provide full ground coverage.

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rear/bottom optical windows are necessary to allow tracking/lasing of a target when the plane passes over it.
I.e. it is a A2G feature. As is F-35 EOTS in general(chosen wavelength, sensor configuration, etc).
It doesn't mean that it can't do a2a - it can. But J-20 EOTS is a specialized a2a system.

tphuang said:

it's unlikely that F-22/35 or B-21 would be able to go through all of China's air space completely undetected.

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Ground-based long-wavelength&multistatic radars in Chinese service have already ensured that for decades.

lcloo said:

Two seater J20 has different mission roles than single seat J20, they can work together instead of replacing the other.

Also, lack of pilots in PLAAF is a myth. China has a well established aviation training institution system. Public information revealed that there are 10 aviation universities /collages/academis directly under control of PLAAF.

Also there are hundreds of currently in service pilots have to made do with J7, J8, J11A etc. They could be piloting J20 if more planes are available, that is if they managed to qualify for 5th gen jet with aircraft type conversion training.


View attachment 82829

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as well i suspect the copilot on a J-20S will be a slightly different breed than regular pilots. more command and control oriented and not focused on flying a plane.

in case anyone lookin

so according to these two, china has enough j20 to eliminate F35 forces of south korea and japan combined, which amount to ~70 F35.

Hence, J20 > 70 ?