J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

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plawolf

Lieutenant General
Right but the Su-35 has TVC. I should have specified but was mostly just reflecting on the aerodynamic design.

Unless you have two planes where one is categorically better in all flight regimes, talk of better manoeuvrability is always something of a judgement call.

The most classic example would be instantaneous (ITR) vs sustained turn rates (STR).

A Su35 with TVC can have insane ITR, but can be beaten in STR.

Similarly, you can have planes with better row rates and climb rates etc.

In reality, you are most likely going to have mix and match with one plane better in certain areas and weaker in others, so it can be extremely hard to conclusively decide which plane’s unique combination of strengths of weaknesses makes it better overall and this is why pilot skill is such a big factor. Because usually the winner is the pilot who can shape the fight to best suit the specific strengths of his plane.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
i
Unless you have two planes where one is categorically better in all flight regimes, talk of better manoeuvrability is always something of a judgement call.

The most classic example would be instantaneous (ITR) vs sustained turn rates (STR).

A Su35 with TVC can have insane ITR, but can be beaten in STR.

Similarly, you can have planes with better row rates and climb rates etc.

In reality, you are most likely going to have mix and match with one plane better in certain areas and weaker in others, so it can be extremely hard to conclusively decide which plane’s unique combination of strengths of weaknesses makes it better overall and this is why pilot skill is such a big factor. Because usually the winner is the pilot who can shape the fight to best suit the specific strengths of his plane.
I’m aware, but nonetheless interesting to think about the differences in clean sheet aerodynamics.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
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I wouldn't be surprised if most of the brigade was already fitted out with J-20s at this point.. the timing should work

Agreed ... the question is only: Two or even already three daduis?
 

Totoro

Major
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Dadui is 10 planes ? Or 12? Or 8? And is it always a fixed number or different brigades (maybe with different models of planes?) Have a different number of planes within a dadui?
 

LCR34

Junior Member
Registered Member
Dadui is 10 planes ? Or 12? Or 8? And is it always a fixed number or different brigades (maybe with different models of planes?) Have a different number of planes within a dadui?
iirc Zhong Dui = 12 And i do do think it differs from type of aircraft, ie Intercepter, bomber, fighter bomber etc.
 

siegecrossbow

General
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Wow ... it almost took one year to get a first "clearer" image of a J-20A from Anshan and now there are already four individual aircraft confirmed with no. 61125 - aka no. 15 - being the highest number.

(Image by CCTV-7 via observer/@CN_military_21 on Twitter)

View attachment 81417

Stop CCTV 7, stop! Huitong is gonna break his fingers updating if you leak like five new serials every day.
 

Totoro

Major
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This is going to be slightly off topic, but hopefully not too much.
As far as I know, PLAAF has the following:
20 or 24 J-11 per brigade. That'd be either fairly clean distribution of 2 daduis. But it could also be there are 2 10-ship single seater daduis and an additional 4 ship two seater dadui. Does anyone have more info?
28 J-10 within a brigade. That would definitely require daduis of different sizes within a single unit. Perhaps 2 12-ship daduis for single seaters and a 4-ship dadui of twin seaters.
Not sure how J-16 brigades are structured. Do they simply have 2 12-ship daduis? Or 3 8-ship daduis?
Then there are Su-30 brigades. Which allegedly have some 18 planes each. That'd suggest a highly unorthodox 2 9-ship dadui structure. Is that true?
J-7s and Q-5s have had, in the past, over 30 planes in a brigade. But Q-5s have been retired and J-7s are likely very close to retirement. Maybe the number of daduis per brigade has dwindled? Does anyone have info on that?
J-8s are also close to retirement but those few brigades that do still exist should have two 10-ship or 12-ship daduis? Do those have a separate 4-ship JJ-7 dadui for training?
Finally, we come to J-20. As far as I can understand Deino, he's suggesting their units may have as many as 3 daduis. How many planes would each of those daduis have?
 

escobar

Brigadier
This is going to be slightly off topic, but hopefully not too much.
As far as I know, PLAAF has the following:
20 or 24 J-11 per brigade. That'd be either fairly clean distribution of 2 daduis. But it could also be there are 2 10-ship single seater daduis and an additional 4 ship two seater dadui. Does anyone have more info?
1st AB at Anshan had 30 J-11B and 8 J-11BS so 38 J-11B/BS
@Deino
 

Strangelove

Colonel
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J-20 stealth fighter jets of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force recently conducted a nocturnal battle exercise against other types of warplanes with experts saying on Sunday that the stealthy J-20 demonstrated its all-time and all-weather combat readiness.

During the recent, undated aerial confrontational exercise that was organized in an undisclosed training base of the PLA Air Force, several J-20 stealth fighter jets took off under the curtain of night and started the combat drill against the simulated enemy after entering a designated area, China Central Television (CCTV) reported on Sunday.

The report indicates that the J-20s did not carry Luneburg lenses, which are radar reflectors used to make a stealth aircraft visible to others in training or non-combat flights. CCTV showed some images of the J-16 heavy fighter jet taking part in the exercise.

In addition to air-to-air combat, other realistic combat-oriented courses, including attack on ground targets and electronic warfare, were also carried out, according to the report.

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, the J-20s also held similar combat exercises against other types of aircrafts, including J-16s and J-11Bs, according to media reports.

At nighttime, pilots can get confused and might not be able to tell if they are flying up, down or if they are rolling. For this reason, pilots must pay more attention while flying the aircraft at night than during the day, Cheng Xia, a J-20 pilot who participated in the latest exercise, told CCTV.

By holding combat drills at night, the J-20 displayed its highly reliable all-weather combat readiness and capability, Wei Dongxu, a Beijing-based military expert, told the Global Times on Sunday.

"In recent air combat exercises, the J-20 took advantages of its stealth and attack capabilities and realized the tactical goals of finding the enemy first, firing missiles first, breaking away from combat first and destroying the target first," Chen said.

However, warplanes on the other team were also able to spot opponents with their radars and launched missiles, forcing their adversaries to make high G evasive maneuvers, according to the CCTV report.

Wei said that the combat drills helped the J-20 hone its stealth capabilities in hunting down non-stealth aircrafts. At the same time, non-stealth aircrafts were forced to find ways to counter stealth aircraft like the J-20.

While CCTV did not specify how the two teams were formed, it is possible that the J-20s fought against other types of warplanes as well as other J-20s, Wei said.

The J-20 could be used to penetrate hostile defenses and seize air superiority, and other types of non-stealth aircraft could be used to unload a large amount of munitions on targets, Wei explained.

The growing media reports on the training and exercises of the J-20 also indicate that more of these aircrafts are being commissioned to the PLA Air Force, observers said.
 
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