At the very minimum we will be getting WS-10 J-20s.
J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII
- Thread starter siegecrossbow
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At the very minimum we will be getting WS-10 J-20s.
i honestly have a "bad" feeling about j-20s performance this time, i feel like it'll be similar to what we saw in airshow 2018, you know just basic maneuvers, nothing spectacular, and for a second time too, so will lose some novelty there. i think J-20s at this stage are still not capable of all those post-stall super maneuvers, thats just my guess tho. i was originally planning to go to the event too but had to cancel it because of strict covid regulations, the tight schedule to me seems like a huge hassle. really hope someone who go will put out great some content i just love to see some jets.
by78
General
I know what you mean. I have the same 'bad feeling', but the upside to the lowered expectations is that we're more likely to be pleasantly surprised.
Those post stall maneuvers have only ever been done at airshows by TVC equipped flankers and the TVC equipped F-22 and of course the TVC equipped J-10B test platform.
We will not see similar post stall maneuvers being performed by J-20 because it isn't TVC equipped yet and even if it is for example on a testbed, there's no reason they have to let it perform.
They also have never allowed the J-20 to perform any fancy show offs. It's always only been allowed straight forward flight and maybe some turns with one or two turns that's allowing the pilot to show a bit of its performance. I don't see PLAAF changing this policy unless something better is well in the works but who knows, they could start being a bit more showboating since kinematic performance isn't that revealing compared to RCS. The reason why I say they won't is because allowing pilots to show off the J-20s performance limits will reveal the types of roles the J-20 is capable of and designed for. It may also reveal some details of its weight, thrust, and lift since the aerodynamics of the frame at least have been revealed in full pretty much.
There is no PLA in service fighter aircraft type that has ever performed an "impressive" flight demonstration in the way that people here want to see.
The J-10B w/ TVC is somewhat the exception, as I suspect it was a dedicated TVC test bed and also not intended for service in a given iteration.
Personally I don't particularly care for post stall maneuvers nor do I care to see any kind of impressive acceleration.
The flight performance of these contemporary aircraft we can all basically take for granted as being sufficiently capable that they can be made to look impressive for crowds if they wanted to, and I think most of us here know just how (un)important those displays that we see are. Nice to see and gawk at, but it's just eye candy at the end of the day.
IMO what is more relevant, is whether any new subsystems or developments of new systems is given to us.
I for one, am not holding out hope for J-20 w/ WS-10, and I certainly do not expect any kind of information regarding WS-15.
The J-10B w/ TVC is somewhat the exception, as I suspect it was a dedicated TVC test bed and also not intended for service in a given iteration.
Personally I don't particularly care for post stall maneuvers nor do I care to see any kind of impressive acceleration.
The flight performance of these contemporary aircraft we can all basically take for granted as being sufficiently capable that they can be made to look impressive for crowds if they wanted to, and I think most of us here know just how (un)important those displays that we see are. Nice to see and gawk at, but it's just eye candy at the end of the day.
IMO what is more relevant, is whether any new subsystems or developments of new systems is given to us.
I for one, am not holding out hope for J-20 w/ WS-10, and I certainly do not expect any kind of information regarding WS-15.
pffttt speak for yourself I WANT EYE CANDY.
With the latest COVID outbreak in neighboring Fujian let’s just hope that the show still happens.
They should just make it virtual if all else fails. If worst comes to worst there will still be Zhuhai 2022.
I get the view that when life gives you lemons you make lemonade, but come on...
Demonstrating capability is much more important than just eye candy. I read your exchange with Justin Bronk on Twitter (I particularly enjoyed how you backed him down on the LO/VLO distinction) and while I agree with everything you said, his ridiculous view has a leg to stand on in part because of the J-20's anemic public displays. If casual observers only ever see the J-20 do turns that make a crop duster look agile, it's not unreasonable for them to conclude that that's because it can't do better. Not everyone is going to read Song Wencong's paper and reason about the inherent agility of the canard+LERX planform.
There were even rumours that amateur video of a J-20 doing a cobra was scrubbed from the Chinese internet; that's just ridiculous.
I'll admit that a large bulk of my motivation is that I want to see bastards like Bronk repeat "the J-20 is an all aspect VLO air superiority fighter" like a catechism, but there are perfectly rational reasons why excessive secrecy is counterproductive, even dangerous. If you obsessively guard every little detail and give no glimpse whatsoever, it's rational for people to conclude that you're so obsessively secretive because there's nothing there. You don't show anything because there's nothing to show. You have no confidence in your capabilities. That can lead to a dangerous underestimation of your capabilities and your enemy might calculate that you're a pushover.
That doesn't mean you reveal every secret, but there's a balance between secrecy and signalling capability and I don't think China is getting the balance right. In fact, I worry that it's getting it dangerously wrong.
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