J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

Status
Not open for further replies.

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
My opinion is that as long as the smoke is not persistent and dark as in the case of early RD-33 engines, this is just a cosmetic issue. In the case of J-79 and RD-33 it actually compromised the fighter’s performance by making the aircraft visually visible from a long range. By the time you can see the smoke from WS-10 series, you are well within 1 to 5KM anyway.
 

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
My opinion is that as long as the smoke is not persistent and dark as in the case of early RD-33 engines, this is just a cosmetic issue. In the case of J-79 and RD-33 it actually compromised the fighter’s performance by making the aircraft visually visible from a long range. By the time you can see the smoke from WS-10 series, you are well within 1 to 5KM anyway.
1631412346720.png
At least it's not like a B-52...
 

lcloo

Captain
How does injecting water into an engine boost its thrust?
"Water injection has been used in both reciprocating and
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. When used in a turbine engine, the effects are similar, except that normally preventing detonation is not the primary goal. Water is normally injected either at the compressor inlet or in the diffuser just before the combustion chambers. Adding water increases the mass being accelerated out of the engine, increasing thrust and it also serves to cool the turbines. Since temperature is normally the limiting factor in turbine engine performance at low altitudes, the cooling effect lets the engine run at higher RPM with more fuel injected and more thrust created without overheating.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
The drawback of the system is that injecting water quenches the flame in the combustion chambers somewhat, as there is no way to cool the engine parts without also cooling the flame. This leads to unburned fuel out the exhaust and a characteristic trail of black smoke."
 

Tirdent

Junior Member
Registered Member
Is it? I always love an excuse to bust out my F-35 smoke farts video:

Look closer: the F-35 is actually flying past trees in the background, which are blurred by the distortion of the hot exhaust. There's no smoke fart whatsoever, as siegecrossbow says modern engines only emit visible smoke trails during quick throttle transients (though not necessarily involving afterburner). No change of throttle setting here though, the engine is in full afterburner throughout the scene.

The RD-33 is pretty much the last modern engine to produce significant smoke emissions, due to a deliberately very compact combustion chamber. As a result, some incompletely burned fuel (soot) from the primary combustion zone exits before it can be consumed by oxidation with secondary air. Older engines smoked despite huge combustion chambers because their fuel injectors poorly atomized the fuel. Or they used water injection to increase thrust on take-off, which increased the amount of unburnt fuel that survived to be exhausted through the nozzle.
 

Attachments

  • z34hrnsdf.png
    z34hrnsdf.png
    468.9 KB · Views: 41
  • ie4rtd.png
    ie4rtd.png
    577.1 KB · Views: 94

Tirdent

Junior Member
Registered Member
Regarding water injection, describing the effect as cooling is a bit of a misnomer unless it's injected into the compressor. The engine does not actually run any cooler, it is still pushed hard against the limits in order to get maximum thrust. There is a certain amount of added thrust from the mass flow increase, but it's generally minor. Water is simply too heavy to carry along a supply sufficient for adding a significant fraction of mass flow for a useful length of time! The main benefit comes from the very high heat capacity of water vapour, which enables higher thrust at the same temperature - it's the change in gas properties that matters.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top