J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

The premise that J-20 joint interoperability with Russian military is farfetched. It's not like Admiral Kutnetsov which is half-dead can support Chinese operations in the First Island Chain, South China Sea, or Taiwan.

Russia is a literally zero factor in South China Sea where J-20 is most likely to be deployed. What is the point of joint interoperability, is China going to defend Russian airspace against NATO airpower?

There are a trillion ways to build friendship without exposing national security secrets. China overreached via excessive hubris and showmanship.

Phead128 said:

The premise that J-20 joint interoperability with Russian military is farfetched. It's not like Admiral Kutnetsov which is half-dead can support Chinese operations in the First Island Chain, South China Sea, or Taiwan.

Russia is a literally zero factor in South China Sea where J-20 is most likely to be deployed. What is the point of joint interoperability, is China going to defend Russian airspace against NATO airpower?

There are a trillion ways to build friendship without exposing national security secrets. China overreached via excessive hubris and showmanship.

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I never wrote anything about joint interoperability of J-20 with the Russian military.
Please re-read what I wrote.

There are many ways in which J-20 could be involved in these exercises in a manner that is useful to both the PLA and the Russian military in a manner that does not give away any information that is sensitive.
Not every exercise is DACT.
The ability of 5th generation aircraft to provide off board sensor support to friendly 4/4+ PLA aircraft that can in turn operate alongside Russian aircraft, acting as an ISR asset in its own right, and the general role of providing a friendly 5th generation capability to enable friendly 4/4+ generation fighters (even if not networked together) to develop tactics against a capable foe, are all significant and does not require any J-20 to directly interface at all with any Russian fighter aircraft or asset, let alone come within anything even approaching extended BVR distances. None of these would necessitate direct joint interfacing of J-20s with Russian military aircraft in the manner you envision.


You need to take a step back and put more emphasis on this part that I wrote before "what extent or nature or depth the J-20s involvement in the exercises will be".
Ask yourself -- do you think every variation of any of those will all "expose national security secrets"? Or, are there any of those variations which may be appropriate to the level of military and strategic partnership that Russia and China have with each other?

Can we move on.... I have read last 3 pages reading this back and forth arguments...

manqiangrexue said:

Daddy's gun collection? Who's daddy? Those are the PLA's weapons, made specifically for their needs. They knew every function in every detail and they know exactly which abilities to use to which degree and which ones to hide in order to get the best out of the exercise without compromising national security. It might surprise you to know that just because a plane shows up to an exercise doesn't mean it spills its guts all over the ground for analysis.

The biggest hubris I see is coming from you, thinking that you know better than daddy how he chooses to use his guns, which he spends all day with at the shooting range but you've never even touched before.

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Who cares who knows more?

All I know is Russian is developing Checkmates to kill J-20s, so exposing even the slightest secret to a Non-Ally nation is risky with little to zero benefit. It's a childish way to gaining friends. Do you see US courting India by sending F-22s to QUAD exercises? Because US isn't as dumb and careless with self-defeating strategies.

Phead128 said:

Who cares who knows more?

All I know is Russian is developing Checkmates to kill J-20s, so exposing even the slightest secret to a Non-Ally nation is risky with little to zero benefit. It's a childish way is gaining friends. Do you see US courting India by sending F-22s to QUAD exercises? Because US isn't as dumb and careless with self-defeating strategies.

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That's not the way fighter development works.... it is rare to develop platform for platform counters to an aircraft, especially in this day and age. Any useful information that can be gleaned about how a modern fighter operates, would be the signals and RF information and electronic order of battle data that would be applicable for EW, networking and sensing, and that is not exactly platform unique.
Now that we have out of the way -- there are many ways for nations -- even close treaty alliance nations -- to preserve those secrets from being exposed to each other in military exercises.
The Sukhoi LTS is an interesting project, but you are overreaching when you're saying it is being developed to kill J-20s. It just doesn't make sense.

Furthermore, I would argue that as far as trust goes, Russia and China are both fairly close. Certainly close enough to allow their top end fighters to be involved in the same exercise to some extent.

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I'm going to give you some advice -- the line of argument that you are making is incorrect and it's not how it works.
Better for you to walk away now than for people to crowd over you to explain it multiple repeated times.

If your argument is about the nature of the Russian and Chinese partnership in general, then that is an entirely different topic, because this entire discussion underlying the involvement of J-20s in this exercise over the last few pages was made with the consensus that the relationship between China and Russia was one of a significant and growing strategic partnership.

Fair enough. I am against a formal treaty alliance with Russia, but that is a separate discussion and there is no point to derail this thread any further! Thank you Bltzo and friends.

Okay, at least there is an understanding that is now present.

Let's put a mark here now in the ground, with at least the relative positions have been clarified and the basis of Phead's position stated by him, which can be better continued in a different thread if others wish to continue the topic.

Let's get back onto the topic of the aircraft itself, even if we need to wait for new pictures or news or videos to emerge, whatever the source.

J-20 model tested in a continuous trans-sonic wind tunnel facility at the SAC.

Delete.

siegecrossbow said:

I actually am hoping for simulated air combats between the J-20 and Su-30SM. Since the Su-30SM is pretty much a MKI we’ll be able to figure out whether BS Dhanoa’s “several kilometers away” claim is factual .

p.s. Who am I kidding. A J-20 flown by a kid with less than 100 hours on the plane has a 17:0 kill ratio against a flanker.

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Why wouldn't it be able to detect it from several kilometres ? Any "stealth" plane can be detected within 10-20km range by a modern radar.