J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[Air Force Brat]

and @Deino

I don't think it can be interpreted in that way, which is also how many members in cjdby did.

In principle, CCTV is only news report, their pictures and subtitles and speeches are not meant to be accurate matching, not their purpose.

This particular report is part of the 19:00 evening news. It is about PLA members expressing their dedication and loyalty to the ongoing party congress, not about presenting a new weapon.

I have found youtube link.

J-20s (including 78272) first appeared at 23:41 in a sequence of army soldiers, pilots etc. learning the party congress report.

Then three J-20s showed up at 24:07 when the subtitle stated "East Sea Fleet XXX base Heroic boat/sub political officer Ji Jing". It is the officer being interviewed in the background. I think he serves either a submarine or a missile/torpedo boat because the word "Ting".

1s before J-20s 2nd show.
View attachment 42713
1s after the above.
View attachment 42712

My conclusion is the report reveal nothing about where these J-20s were.

I think you're spot on here! those J-20's could be anywhere, they are likely staged to a strategic location near either the South China Sea or East China Sea,,, but I'm rather certain they were giving credit to the "political officer"! (see the Hunt for Red October)

anyway, this is no doubt a political statement exalting President Xi and various Party leaders,,, they are praising the military strength build up, and touting their outstanding weapons and leadership---"that is all"

I'm very concerned that individuals may be "losing their voice"

which brings us back to the point that "ALL MILITARY EQUIPMENT" is political at its core,, so every weapons system is indeed a political statement, in the realm of not only Foreign Policy, but domestic! and this broadcast lauding the J-20 is a little bit of both, but more important to win the hearts and minds of Chinese to follow their own leaders and build their confidence in their country as "RISING" not falling behind.

 

[by78]

Look at this J-20 pilot. How old do you guys reckon he is?

 

[Yodello]

It's ok, fellas. Yodello is only expressing his opinion as a "maybe" for us to consider. No offense to him, but it is his way to have little faith. Two months ago, he was screaming incompetence and cowardice at Beijing because he believed that India would indefinitely occupy the area in Doklam and win the standoff because the PLA would not open fire. When the stand-off ended, he expressed his great shock and delight at how well China shaped the situation and its outcome all without firing a shot, resulting in his new-found admiration for the decision-makers in Zhongnanhai. Well now that we're onto the topic of aircraft, it seems that old habits die hard, don't they, Yodello? Unfortunately, it may take a little more than a month for you to get your epiphany this time...

HeHe...... Maybe I am indeed one who has little faith, or maybe it is more a case of impatience. I guess I expect too much to be revealed too soon. PLA watching can be quite 'traumatising' especially about the J-20, with information coming down in trickles. I gotta learn to be more patient and hold my tongue ( or my fingers in this case).

 

[Yodello]

Look at this J-20 pilot. How old do you guys reckon he is?

Probably in his early Thirties.

 

[manqiangrexue]

HeHe...... Maybe I am indeed one who has little faith, or maybe it is more a case of impatience. I guess I expect too much to be revealed too soon. PLA watching can be quite 'traumatising' especially about the J-20, with information coming down in trickles. I gotta learn to be more patient and hold my tongue ( or my fingers in this case).

But these trickles are golden and every drop could make your day. The last 2, we first saw J-20 with Taihang engine, which, I previously said that I did not want to see because it would mean that WS-15 was farther rather than closer, but it really felt good to see J-20 with a Chinese heart. And then after that, a bomb was dropped, that due to Chinese manufacturing breakthroughs, an aircraft as large as the J-20 could be produced at a weight in the 15-tonne class (which could mean anything under 16 tonnes according to that author's definition). Before that, the discussion was primarily on whether J-20 was able to limit its weight to be marginally heavier than the seemingly smaller but nearly 20 tonne F-22. These tidbits are just the surface of how far China has progressing and the tip of the shark's fin that hints at which areas Chinese technology could have surpassed anything that any outsider would have expected; they are the jewels and joys of China-watching.

 

[taxiya]

I think you're spot on here! those J-20's could be anywhere, they are likely staged to a strategic location near either the South China Sea or East China Sea,,, but I'm rather certain they were giving credit to the "political officer"! (see the Hunt for Red October)

anyway, this is no doubt a political statement exalting President Xi and various Party leaders,,, they are praising the military strength build up, and touting their outstanding weapons and leadership---"that is all"

I'm very concerned that individuals may be "losing their voice"

which brings us back to the point that "ALL MILITARY EQUIPMENT" is political at its core,, so every weapons system is indeed a political statement, in the realm of not only Foreign Policy, but domestic! and this broadcast lauding the J-20 is a little bit of both, but more important to win the hearts and minds of Chinese to follow their own leaders and build their confidence in their country as "RISING" not falling behind.

yes, general Clausewitz

 

[Inst]

I'm wondering what the real estimates of J-20 fuel capacity are. The weight reduction makes more sense if there's lots of empty space in the J-20.

Another factor is the YF-22. The YF-22 was actually around the same size as the F-22, but weighted only 15 tons without RAM, and I assume avionics. It could be the case that once RAM is applied, the J-20 will balloon.

 

[taxiya]

I'm wondering what the real estimates of J-20 fuel capacity are. The weight reduction makes more sense if there's lots of empty space in the J-20.

Another factor is the YF-22. The YF-22 was actually around the same size as the F-22, but weighted only 15 tons without RAM, and I assume avionics. It could be the case that once RAM is applied, the J-20 will balloon.

That assumes that J-20's RAM is the same composition of F-22 which is heavy because it is iron-oxidized based.

 

[manqiangrexue]

I'm wondering what the real estimates of J-20 fuel capacity are. The weight reduction makes more sense if there's lots of empty space in the J-20.

Another factor is the YF-22. The YF-22 was actually around the same size as the F-22, but weighted only 15 tons without RAM, and I assume avionics. It could be the case that once RAM is applied, the J-20 will balloon.

RAM and avionics. Is there any figure out there for the weight of F-22 RAM? I find it hard to believe that RAM could weigh anywhere in the vicinity of 4.7 tonnes but I could be convinced with evidence. Short of it, I'd assume that avionics makes the bulk of that weight and avionics must have already been accounted for in the weight given by the source. As a matter of fact, I think even RAM should be in there because he compared the 15 tonne class figure directly to F-22's figure of 19 tonne class and there would be no point in making that comparison at all if he was talking about a bare J-20 frame vs a combat-suited F-22 at empty weight.

And by the way, the author did say that the F-22 is 19-tonne class when Raptor is really much closer to 20 tonnes, which leads me to think that he considers any figure under 16 tonnes to be the 15-tonne class. So saying that J-20 must be 15,000 kg is not really supported by the article.

 

[Richard Santos]

Surface area of a heavy twin engine fighter is in the ball park of 200 square meters. If the ram layer has the same density as iron, and covers the aircraft uniformly, then a ram layer 3mm thick would weigh 5 tons.