J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[latenlazy]

But why would China pick Su-35 instead of the potentially more useable Su-34 which they could pull apart and learn from and maybe even reverse engineer and copy? Su-35 has equivalents in China and fighters like J-20 that exceed it. J-11Bs could be upgraded further to be a cheaper version of Su-35 or J-11D if they worked the bugs out. If the problem was production rate, J-20 production doesn't really affect SAC production of J-11 models. SAC isn't mass producing J-31. So by the time PLAAF gets all 24 Su-35, they could have worked out J-11D and built a few. Su-34 could have been purchased for evaluation in reverse engineering. If China just wants to inject money into Sukhoi which is silly because they are not park of PAKFA and India is a rising adversary to China. If they wanted to inject some cash into Russia to back them up, why not buy other equipment China is behind in? Why Su-35 that we are allegedly equal to. This makes me doubt China's fighter projects a little.

I will answer this in the Su-35 thread.

 

[siegecrossbow]

J-20 on CCTV-1 news. Apparently they are operating from a PLAN airbase near the East China Sea.

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[Yodello]

Detected at 100km is not the same as tracked and engaged. F-22 could likely be detected by UHF radars years ago at long ranges. Being able to accurately guide X band missiles to it at 100km is another thing. It's not doable yet. Meteor will soon have equivalents in Russia, USA, and China in a matter of years if not already done. This puts Typhoons and Rafales at an even greater disadvantage compared to long range ramjet powered missiles from these countries launched on LO platforms. There's no winning for 4+ gen planes. We won't even go into previous gens with even weaker sensors. What I don't understand is if J-20 is as successful as claimed, why was Su-35 purchased? We can rationalise it all we want but that piece of the puzzle does not fit. Some people think it's creating solidarity with Russia while both face increasing pressure from USA. I don't buy that because why not buy other military equipment that China could clearly benefit from like S-400, Su-34, Tu-160. If China's domestic fighter program is as advanced as a successful 5th gen fighter with soon to be applied new engines that work well, why purchase something that only mildly supplements very effective and competent fighter programs in J-10, J-11, J-20, even J-31 possibly.

Maybe, it just as simple case of China's Stealth Fighter Program not being as advanced as it is believed to be. I have extremely serious doubts that the J-20 would be equal to the F-22 or F-35, forget about being superior, simply because of the the fact that every single Chinese weaponry or Platform hasn't been upto par or equal to their U.S Counterpart in any public specifications. Forget about, secret specifications.

 

[Deino]

J-20 on CCTV-1 news. Apparently they are operating from a PLAN airbase near the East China Sea.

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Strange. I usually cannot get access to Your links (esp. those from cjdby) ... all I get is an info of some sort telling me its for a mobile version only.

But I think it must be this one:

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Deino

 

[vesicles]

Maybe, it just as simple case of China's Stealth Fighter Program not being as advanced as it is believed to be. I have extremely serious doubts that the J-20 would be equal to the F-22 or F-35, forget about being superior, simply because of the the fact that every single Chinese weaponry or Platform hasn't been upto par or equal to their U.S Counterpart in any public specifications. Forget about, secret specifications.

By "public specification", you mean speculations publicly made by the US officials? In my opinion, it is premature to make any judgment/comparisons on the J-20. At this point, no one is publicly stating any parameters on the J-20. The Chinese aren't saying anything. The Americans aren't saying anything. Everything is based on speculations made by mostly amateurs who have no access to real info. It would be next to useless to make judgement/comparisons based on wildly speculative numbers.

Behind closed doors? Who knows what the US DoD/CIA knows about the J-20. They won't let anyone know what they know, or even if they know anything. Letting people know what they know will potentially expose their sources and jeopardize their intelligence gathering capabilities.

And at this point, past experience may not apply to a fast-developing country like China. What was true 5 years ago may not be true any more. Keep in mind that China is focusing a lot of their efforts to change the fact that US technology is superior. And we know for a fact that they have made a lot of progress on that. So where are they now? Who knows... they are not telling anyone... And because of lack of information, people like us who don't have access to real data cannot make any correct speculations.

 

[Jura The idiot]

oops, at first I said Deino hadn't posted pictures from his own Twitter only now see he actually did in
#484 Deino, Today at 6:56 PM

 

[taxiya]

J-20 on CCTV-1 news. Apparently they are operating from a PLAN airbase near the East China Sea.

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and @Deino

I don't think it can be interpreted in that way, which is also how many members in cjdby did.

In principle, CCTV is only news report, their pictures and subtitles and speeches are not meant to be accurate matching, not their purpose.

This particular report is part of the 19:00 evening news. It is about PLA members expressing their dedication and loyalty to the ongoing party congress, not about presenting a new weapon.

I have found youtube link.

J-20s (including 78272) first appeared at 23:41 in a sequence of army soldiers, pilots etc. learning the party congress report.

Then three J-20s showed up at 24:07 when the subtitle stated "East Sea Fleet XXX base Heroic boat/sub political officer Ji Jing". It is the officer being interviewed in the background. I think he serves either a submarine or a missile/torpedo boat because the word "Ting".

1s before J-20s 2nd show.

1s after the above.


My conclusion is the report reveal nothing about where these J-20s were.

 

[Lethe]

Maybe, it just as simple case of China's Stealth Fighter Program not being as advanced as it is believed to be. I have extremely serious doubts that the J-20 would be equal to the F-22 or F-35, forget about being superior, simply because of the the fact that every single Chinese weaponry or Platform hasn't been upto par or equal to their U.S Counterpart in any public specifications. Forget about, secret specifications.

Even if it were true that every single Chinese weapon, platform or system was inferior to its American counterpart in every relevant aspect -- which is far from the case -- that state of affairs only holds until it doesn't. By your logic, nothing China makes will ever be equal or superior to its American counterpart: it can't be done because it hasn't been done. In reality, there is a first time for everything, and the signs of convergence across a vast range of domains are unquestionable.

 

[Inst]

The ZH-05 is superior to the OICW, simply because the latter is vaporware, and it's arguably superior to the Korean K11 due to weight. The ZH-05 is way closer to a mass-produced weapon that can be equipped to every soldier. Likewise, the QLZ-87 is superior to the American and Russian automatic grenade launchers insofar as the QLZ-87 is a highly portable AGL, whereas American and Russian variants are crew-served.

There are definitely aspects of the J-20 that are inferior to the F-22 and F-35 (engine, somewhat less stealthy), but because Lockheed screwed it up majorly with the previous aircraft, there are also aspects where the J-20 is superior (compared to the F-22, the J-20 has better sensors, compared to the F-35, the J-20 has better kinematics, while maintaining the same quality of sensor).

 

[Richard Santos]

In certain areas the Chinese are still around 40 years behind the Americans. Certain aspects of engine technology comes to mind. However, I think it is possible to correlate how far the Chinese are behind in particular field of fighter design, to how much this field was wider applications outside fighter design. The more specifically a field of technology narrowly applies to fighter design, the more likely the Chinese are further behind. The more broadly the field is applicable to other uses, the more likely the Chinese are either close to, or abreast of latest technology.

So I will venture to guess in the area of IR senior, semi-conductor design for AESA, and sensor fusion, the Chinese are not far behind at all, and may be almost breast of the best American technology. These are all areas the both have other applications, and readily benefit from advancements made for other applications.

In the field of solid rocket motor, and jet engines, the Chinese are likely further behind.