J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[Iron Man]

Read back at that news and links posted in this very thread. It is spread over a couple of articles, first ones from western media that picked up on new Chinese patents for metamaterials designed to counter UHF, and then more circumstance Chinese reports on a new special material going into mass production and being used on a new fighter.

So what you are saying is that you don't actually have any evidence that anti-UHF metamaterials are currently being used by the J-20.

 

[Figaro]

So what you are saying is that you don't actually have any evidence that anti-UHF metamaterials are currently being used by the J-20.

What he's saying is that you should go back several pages to find these links. If I recall, there was several pages of discussions specifically dedicated to J-20 linked counter UHF meta-materials a couple of weeks back ...

 

[plawolf]

So what you are saying is that you don't actually have any evidence that anti-UHF metamaterials are currently being used by the J-20.

If you want explicit official statements to that effect, be prepared to wait a decade or two, if you are lucky.

That’s just the way defence reporting works, especially but not exclusively, with Chinese defence products that are not for export.

You get little hints and snippets, and you need to join the dots.

 

[SinoSoldier]

Why dig through a 200+ page thread when you can simply stand on the shoulders of Henri K.?

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This is his article on the J-20's alleged metamaterials; he is better at OSINT than pretty much everyone here.

 

[Iron Man]

Why dig through a 200+ page thread when you can simply stand on the shoulders of Henri K.?

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

This is his article on the J-20's alleged metamaterials; he is better at OSINT than pretty much everyone here.

The devil is in the details and your HenriK article is missing them as far as its relevancy to this discussion. What we are talking about is NOT just metamaterials, but current anti-UHF metamaterials in use in the J-20 program. Note that we are talking about anti-UHF not anti-X metamaterials. The former is a far bigger deal than the latter, not least because it is not easily used due to the bulk of the material needed to absorb UHF frequencies. Now before you quote a study on current attempts in reducing the thickness of anti-UHF metamaterials, we are (again) talking about current anti-UHF metamaterial use in the J-20 program. That is, metamaterial research is done, it is specifically anti-UHF, and it is currently being used in the J-20 program. Posting unconnected articles and insinuating some kind of tenuous connection between them is not intellectually rigorous reasoning.

 

[SinoSoldier]

The devil is in the details and your HenriK article is missing them as far as its relevancy to this discussion. What we are talking about is NOT just metamaterials, but current anti-UHF metamaterials in use in the J-20 program. Note that we are talking about anti-UHF not anti-X metamaterials. The former is a far bigger deal than the latter, not least because it is not easily used due to the bulk of the material needed to absorb UHF frequencies. Now before you quote a study on current attempts in reducing the thickness of anti-UHF metamaterials, we are (again) talking about current anti-UHF metamaterial use in the J-20 program. That is, metamaterial research is done, it is specifically anti-UHF, and it is currently being used in the J-20 program. Posting unconnected articles and insinuating some kind of tenuous connection between them is not intellectually rigorous reasoning.

Fair enough, but as you've stated yourself, the holy grail of these technologies would be a counter to the UHF-band sensors specifically designed to track VLO fighters. Therefore, given the emergence of metamaterials research & physical examples, how likely is it that their developers haven't considered the UHF band? While we have yet to receive reports directly linking the J-20's metamaterials to anti-UHF invulnerability, the fact that the Chinese are themselves developing UHF radars (for the purpose of countering stealthy fighters) makes it quite possible that they are directed against UHF.

If we choose to await documentation then we probably won't ever see them, at least not for many years.

 

[ougoah]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't people only proposing the connection between the two? No one has stated details or confirmed J-20's use of metamaterials. This whole thing has been an exercise in speculation the entire time. No one is under any impression otherwise.

 

[SinoSoldier]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't people only proposing the connection between the two? No one has stated details or confirmed J-20's use of metamaterials. This whole thing has been an exercise in speculation the entire time. No one is under any impression otherwise.

J-20's chief designer Yang Wei verbally confirmed the use of metamaterials, although the nature and extent of them is unknown.

 

[Iron Man]

Fair enough, but as you've stated yourself, the holy grail of these technologies would be a counter to the UHF-band sensors specifically designed to track VLO fighters. Therefore, given the emergence of metamaterials research & physical examples, how likely is it that their developers haven't considered the UHF band? While we have yet to receive reports directly linking the J-20's metamaterials to anti-UHF invulnerability, the fact that the Chinese are themselves developing UHF radars (for the purpose of countering stealthy fighters) makes it quite possible that they are directed against UHF.

If we choose to await documentation then we probably won't ever see them, at least not for many years.

I have already said this:

Oh, I have no doubt that metamaterials are currently in development for stealth fighter applications. What is unfounded is the claim that UHF-specific metamaterials are already in service with the J-20.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't people only proposing the connection between the two? No one has stated details or confirmed J-20's use of metamaterials. This whole thing has been an exercise in speculation the entire time. No one is under any impression otherwise.

Really?? Is no one?:

Don’t forget that the J20 uses newly developed Chinese metamaterials designed to counter UHF radar.

Such materials would need to be built onto the surface of the aircraft, and given how delicate RAM is, it makes most sense to apply this metamaterial skin directly onto the fuselage.

The uniform yellow on factory fresh J20s would either be the colour of those metamateiral skin, or a base coat designed to protect it, and probably help RAM and paint adhere to the skin.

 

[ougoah]

Is that not all said within the context of what we've been given, i.e. direct hints that metamaterials are applied (I am aware of the statements made by Yang Wei and the videos suggesting this from months back) but plawolf speculating on how it's used etc? I mean it's obvious he doesn't know the extent to which metamaterials are used and everything he's said are speculations and explanations on how it could be applied with regards to seeing yellow primer paint and RAM on skin? Maybe that's just me.

Edit. Sorry Ironman didn't see your post. Disregard above.