J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

[Quickie]

I think because nearly 10 years a go this video caused a stir -

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(skip to the 8 min mark)

He claims the F-22 having an STR of 28 deg/s at 20,000 ft F-22. Rafale was "RUMORED" to hit close to 28 deg/s at 25,000 ft. Off-course there are many unknown variables.

I think this is where the whole F-22 has the best STR came from.

So far there is no video evidence (from Air Show, or whatever) of that for both the aircraft.

 

[Quickie]

I think because nearly 10 years a go this video caused a stir -

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

(skip to the 8 min mark)

He claims the F-22 having an STR of 28 deg/s at 20,000 ft F-22. Rafale was "RUMORED" to hit close to 28 deg/s at 25,000 ft. Off-course there are many unknown variables.

I think this is where the whole F-22 has the best STR came from.

I've just watched the video. I think the 28 deg/s is ITR. He said the F-22 finally went into a stall after that, relying just on engine power (vector thrust) to stay up.

 

[Air Force Brat]

It's in "park" status. The all moving vertical stabilizer turns 90 degrees at this status (maybe as air brake?)

actually its called "All Flying", and it adds quite significantly to "pitch transitions", in addition to the canards! In addition to its duties as a vertical stabilizer, like the Beech Bonanza, it would more correctly be referred to as a "Ruddervator", although spell check doesn't like that word, that's how Beechcraft referred to it...the YF-23 has a "ruddervator" in order to minimize "RCS".

I referred to it as "long throw" because unlike most control surfaces on military or commercial aircraft, it has a tremendous "range of travel", no doubt to enhance flight control in "post stall"? and I would imagine the FCS algorithms limit travel at higher speeds in order not to overstress the aircraft.

Dr. Song and the design team did this to ensure that even if the J-20 never incorporated OVT, it would be fully recoverable from any post stall attitude.

 

[b787]

It's not just about engine power. A jet fighter's max STR is ultimately limited by its aerodynamic design, and not by its max engine power. High alpha capability is an important determinant of STR and we know that the J-20's aerodynamic design is built towards having this capability.

Otherwise, anyone can just put a powerful engine on a Third Gen fighter like the MIg-21 or F-100 to magically increase their STR/ITR to that comparable to the Fourth Gen.

read what i said, ITR is the max lift coefficient, thus the highest turn rate it will achieve, as it says no aircraft can keep it up, it is for a few seconds, STR is the turn rate the jet can sustain or keep it as it slows down, and bleed speed, thus thrust will reduce the rate it bleeds energy.

to increase lift either you improve the lift drag ratio or you lighten up the aircraft.

J-20 to being called on par to what other nation have, needs engines in the 15000 or 17000 kg of thrust class.

you can think it is very light, but i do not think it is lighter than 18900 kg at operational empty weight, it very likely weighs between 28000 to 29000 kg at combat weight and a 36000 to 39000 max take off.

 

[Hyperwarp]

I've just watched the video. I think the 28 deg/s is ITR. He said the F-22 finally went into a stall after that, relying just on engine power (vector thrust) to stay up.

He said the

"The F-15 has an instantaneous of 21 and sustained about 15 to 16 degrees. The raptor can sustain 28 degrees"

Sounds like STR to me. So the F-22 sustain rate is almost twice that of the F-15.

 

[Pmichael]

For STR two twings are important wing load and thrust-to-weight ratio. The F-22 with a typical load isn't outstanding in both areas.

Although I could imagine it could pull out some nice things when being pretty much empty.

 

[FORBIN]

I think because nearly 10 years a go this video caused a stir -

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

(skip to the 8 min mark)

He claims the F-22 having an STR of 28 deg/s at 20,000 ft F-22. Rafale was "RUMORED" to hit close to 28 deg/s at 25,000 ft. Off-course there are many unknown variables.

I think this is where the whole F-22 has the best STR came from.

Rafale STR 24 deg/s

Sounds like STR to me. So the F-22 sustain rate is almost twice that of the F-15.

The F-15 has an instantaneous of 21 and sustained about 15 to 16 degrees

21 few ! 25 and 16 deg/s

 

[Quickie]

read what i said, ITR is the max lift coefficient, thus the highest turn rate it will achieve, as it says no aircraft can keep it up, it is for a few seconds, STR is the turn rate the jet can sustain or keep it as it slows down, and bleed speed, thus thrust will reduce the rate it bleeds energy.

to increase lift either you improve the lift drag ratio or you lighten up the aircraft.

J-20 to being called on par to what other nation have, needs engines in the 15000 or 17000 kg of thrust class.

you can think it is very light, but i do not think it is lighter than 18900 kg at operational empty weight, it very likely weighs between 28000 to 29000 kg at combat weight and a 36000 to 39000 max take off.

I wouldn't say ITR is max lift coefficient as there're also other forces at play such as on the aircraft control surfaces.

to increase lift either you improve the lift drag ratio or you lighten up the aircraft.

Hmm... to increase lift, you improve on the high alpha capability which maximizes the lift coefficient at high angle of attack.

J-20 to being called on par to what other nation have, needs engines in the 15000 or 17000 kg of thrust class.

you can think it is very light, but i do not think it is lighter than 18900 kg at operational empty weight, it very likely weighs between 28000 to 29000 kg at combat weight and a 36000 to 39000 max take off.

I rather not discuss on random speculation on specifications. It leads to nowhere.

Besides, I tend to believe the pilot's claim that the J-20 can supercruise. This is possible even with 14500 kg to 15000 kg engines because of the J-20's lower drag.

 

[Quickie]

He said the


Sounds like STR to me. So the F-22 sustain rate is almost twice that of the F-15.

If it was STR, the F-22 wouldn't have gone into a stall as it continued to go into the turn.

"The F-15 has an instantaneous of 21 and sustained about 15 to 16 degrees. The raptor can sustain 28 degrees"

This could still be referring to ITR. "The raptor can sustain 28 degrees" could mean the raptor can sustain an instantaneous of 28 degrees for how many degrees.

Or it could mean the raptor can have an instantaneous of some degrees and sustained about 28 degrees, bearing in mind this followed the words "The F-15 has an instantaneous of 21 and sustained about 15 to 16 degrees."

 

[Deino]

Wouldn't it be nice to see that dragon painted on the tails?