J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

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sanblvd

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The F35 doesn't have an HUD because it's HMD is supposed to project the same information as a HUD would no matter where the pilot is looking. It's not about the sensors, but rather how best to display sensor information.

The problem with current modern HMDs is that all the models tested or fielded are all too heavy.

There have been multiple studies of the effect of HMD on pilots, which all showed increased neck pain during or shortly after flight, and increased neck injury rates from ejections.

Thus far, it appears the Chinese are preferring to have HMS to cue off bore-sight AAMs, without all the advanced display functionality preferred by western HMDs to keep weight down.

The Chinese do have serviceable domestic HMDs available, and the PLAAF would have done extensively tests on them, and probably have a good number stocked. But they are either limiting the amount of time pilots wear them in flight to manage the risks of neck injury and/or decided to keep those HMDs under wraps.

I agree with you, HMS is a good technology, but US push it way too soon on F-35, miniature electronics and display technology is advantage very fast, but I think its a good idea to let civilian tech work on it first then military.

Also as taxiya point out, maybe J-20's helmet also have some kind of internet display like google glass that can improve pilot's situational awareness.
 

superdog

Junior Member
true, while my question was specifically aimed to get confirmation regarding the picture 40998 by RickHunter that seems to depict a seemingly ground image on the visor.

I guess J-20 does not take the more fancy but problematic approach of F-35 namely image merging of 360 degree view. J-20 could be just project and switch between those images manually.
I think the online reaction towards the J-20 helmet was overhyped.

232042l8tekgok2krtkkrk.jpg (high resolution picture, click to enlarge)

The helmet shown in the J-20 cockpit video appears to be model TK-31, a light helmet that does not offer any HMD functionality whatsoever. I say that judging from its size and shape and its model description. It doesn't even show mounts for HMS or night vision goggles. I suspect it is just a generic light helmet for non-combat flying. It is highly doubtful that the real helmet designed for J-20 (a plane with so many optical windows and clearly emphasize sensor integration) would be so simplistic.

From academic papers, bid calls and airshow pamphlets, it is known that China has been developing various models of HMD helmets for at least 6 years (probably much longer than that) and they've certainly created some products. But so far we have only seen Chinese HMD for helicopters, the PLAAF has kept their advanced helmets a tight secret, just like they're not showing cockpit pictures of their newer fighters. I would advise against thinking that TK-31 is THE helmet for J-20.
 

superdog

Junior Member
The F35 doesn't have an HUD because it's HMD is supposed to project the same information as a HUD would no matter where the pilot is looking. It's not about the sensors, but rather how best to display sensor information.

The problem with current modern HMDs is that all the models tested or fielded are all too heavy.

There have been multiple studies of the effect of HMD on pilots, which all showed increased neck pain during or shortly after flight, and increased neck injury rates from ejections.

Thus far, it appears the Chinese are preferring to have HMS to cue off bore-sight AAMs, without all the advanced display functionality preferred by western HMDs to keep weight down.

The Chinese do have serviceable domestic HMDs available, and the PLAAF would have done extensively tests on them, and probably have a good number stocked. But they are either limiting the amount of time pilots wear them in flight to manage the risks of neck injury and/or decided to keep those HMDs under wraps.
Just a small correction: on F-35 the HMD does not display the same HUD information wherever the pilot looks at, it only displays HUD information when the pilot looks at where the HUD is supposed to be (i.e. straight ahead). When looking elsewhere only minimal information is displayed, which help reduce disruption to the pilot's natural vision.

Demonstration:
 

Blitzo

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i quite like this photo, unfortunately it's a bit small but it's the most symmetrical photo of J-20 I've seen yet taken under good conditions. and of course all the control surfaces splayed out like that in the powered down position looks awesome.

in fact it almost looks like a CGI. Back in the mid or late 2000s if we were shown this picture we would probably all have called it a PS or CGI.

lqj5pU2.jpg
 

Blitzo

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about the HMD in this brochure that was posted before... it seems to show t
wo models.

Both seem to use the same visor projection configuration that JHMCS and F-35's HMDS uses, rather than the single monocle in front of eye method that the Scorpion HMD uses. Both also seem to be variants of one another.

"HMD1" is a single display variant, with a 20 degree field of view (similar to JHMCS), with the display projected over a single eye, for a "monocle" projection. I think this configuration is probably similar to JHMCS in function.
"HMD2" is a two display variant, with a combined field of view of 30 degrees x 40 degrees (similar to F-35's HMDS), and is projected in the middle of the visor where both eyes can see, and I think will allow for a much more comprehensive capability similar to F-35's HMDS (including potentially see through "FLIR-vision").
Both displays have a brightness of no less than 1000 nits (i.e. cd/m3)

The brochure also has some info I think on the helmet's offbore sight azimuth and pitch range of motion(?) and some other stuff that I can't really read.

I'm not sure if this model of helmet display is compatible with TK-31 that J-20 is currently using, but logically speaking I imagine the military would be quite interested in developing a helmet mounted display that is able to be installed on as many older fighter aircraft that may eventually use the new gen PL-10 SRAAMs, as well as all newer fighter aircraft, as possible. Whether that goes for a wholly modular or combined modular+specialized HMD approach, who knows.



hmd.jpeg
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Here is Henri K take on the J20 Pilot Zhang Hao interview. the interesting part is J 20 can create ghost plane to spoof the opfor. And J20 can launch attack beyond the detection range of the enemy
So all those rumor about PLXX might be true
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For the second time since its maiden flight six-and-a-half years ago, J-20 , the latest generation of Chinese fighter aircraft, was officially in front of the big screen on Sunday, July 30 , Marching to the Zhurihe Training Center on the occasion of the 90th anniversary of the founding of the People's Liberation Army (PLA).

Three aircraft, in two-tone livery digitalized, traveled the skies of Inner Mongolia in front of Chinese President XI Jinping and the 12,000 soldiers participating in the military parade.

In addition to the images taken by other aircraft, the cameras installed inside the cockpit of J-20 also sent back some clichés both interesting and unpublished.

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Two J-20 take-off together for the parade (Image: Xinhua Video)

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According to the commentator of the report broadcast live in front of millions of Chinese viewers, J-20 is "a 4th generation stealth supersonic combat aircraft, capable of deceiving radar (enemies) and performing very low maneuvers Altitude, and destroy enemies even before they see it. "

An official definition that highlights two of the characteristics of aircraft of this type - very low observability and maneuverability - and also the main tactic of J-20, namely to use its stealth to launch offensive beyond the Detection range of enemy aircraft.


But if these comments may seem somewhat banal, although official, the elements given by two pilots of J-20 who were interviewed will allow us to understand more this plane previously kept in secret.

Once in a supersonic regime, he entered his kingdom

(一 进入 了 超音速 就是 它 的 天下 了)

"Its maneuverability is greatly improved compared to previous generation aircraft, it can be said to be agile as a rabbit," said ZHANG Hao (张昊), pilot of the J-20 at the top of training, "His performance in subsonic regime Is not so bad, and once in supersonic regime, he entered his kingdom. "

"Thanks to the aircraft's many on-board sensors and advanced data fusion, J-20's level of automation is very high," adds ZHANG, "The battlefield has become more and more transparent to us. "

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ZHANG Hao (top) and TANG Hai Ning, J-20 drivers (Images: CCTV-13)


The young ZHANG winger, Tang Hai Ning (汤海宁), says that today's J-20 pilots are all capable of flying on three different types of new generation fighter aircraft.

The J-20 squadron today is also equipped with other models of fighter, such as the new J-16fighter-bomber and the J-10C combat aircraft . This mixture promotes brainstorming of pilots, which allows to refine the tactics of air combat of each other.


When TANG talks about J-20 piloting in the somewhat peculiar weather conditions in Inner Mongolia, one reads through his words that the aircraft is sensitive and very reactive, forcing the pilots to maneuver even finer than usual .

Apart from these direct testimonies of fighter pilots, the televised report of the parade also revealed several interesting details.

The first concerns the helmet used by the J-20 pilots, which is different from those currently in service on other Chinese aircraft.

It is in fact the lightweight protective helmet TK-31 developed by the subsidiary ALI of the Chinese aircraft manufacturer AVIC, already exposed at the last aviation exhibition of Zhuhai.

Knowing that this helmet is also used by pilot students flying on new Chinese advanced training aircraft, such as JL-9 and JL-10 , it is therefore likely that the TK-31 is only the training helmet of J-20 and not the HMDS type, a technology already widely used on J-10x and J-11x fighter aircraft for example.

Apart from the pilots' helmets, it was also noticed that the J-20s scouting in Zhurihe, the largest integrated training center in Asia with its 1,066 square kilometers of surface area and located 200 km from the Mongolian border, Are always equipped with Lüneberg lens, designed to significantly increase the SER of the carrier.

Is this a security measure, to prevent the J-20 radar signature from being measured by a third party at this very remote location in China, or a measure by necessity, Air traffic control can not detect the aircraft at a greater distance?

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Each J-20 wore a Lüneberg lens to increase its signature SER (Image: Xinhua Video, East Pendulum)

The last detail concerns the J-20 pilot field of view. As a dual configuration aircraft such as the J-10, the first non-rigorous comparison shows that the J-20 pilot has a better field of view to his lateral rear-end than J-10. This is due to the ducks which are installed on the same plane as the wing, in slightly positive dihedral shape to preserve the aerodynamic advantage of such a configuration.

Although the WVR fight no longer seems to be the preferred tactic of J-20, but better visibility always contributes to the pilot's awareness of the situation and therefore the overall survival.
 
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