J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

[delft]

although the original McDD Phantom project team were the brightest minds in the industry too. LOL

OT
The F4H first flew in 1958 long before McDonnell acquired Douglas.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

The problem is Vesicles, A gun system would be visible if it was installed even on a stealth. there should be a visible door to allow the weapon to fire.
If you look at the Raptor or the lightning there is a visible identifiable structure where the gun system resides. Even T50 Pakfa has a identifiable gun port. J20 does not.

 

[Max Demian]

So it's a long range striker/interceptor after all ...

Well, shall we wait a little bit to make the decision on the J-20 gun? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. One of these days, the PLAAF might decide to show us the J-20 gun... Who knows...

Logically speaking, there should be no reason for them to take out the gun. We all know that the PLA is very conservative. So it's hard for me to believe that they made such a drastic decision to take out the gun, especially that they should be well aware of the F-4 situation. Even if someone made the suggestion to take out the gun during the design phase, they would have been shut down quickly.

Further, their goal from the very beginning has been to challenge the F-22 (not saying anything about the actual capabilities of the two). The F-22 has an internal gun. So it makes sense that the CAC also put a gun on the J-20.

They estimated that the first batch of J-20 with interim engines would be hopeless in a dog fight vs F-22, so why bother? Perhaps the first version of J-20 is geared towards a long range striker/interceptor role, as many have been stating since the onset.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

I am not saying that they necessarily will not have a gun system it's just that as yet none of them seem to have one. It may be very well that none of the existing birds are intended to ever be used in combat or employed operationally in which case lacking a gun makes sense as, They are just not ready for one.

 

[vesicles]

So it's a long range striker/interceptor after all ...


They estimated that the first batch of J-20 with interim engines would be hopeless in a dog fight vs F-22, so why bother? Perhaps the first version of J-20 is geared towards a long range striker/interceptor role, as many have been stating since the onset.

Again, I'm not speculating on the comparative capabilities of the J-20 vs the F-22. What I am saying is that the CAC intended to design a 5-gen stealth fighter similar in class as the F-22. Then it would make sense that they intended to match the features of the F-22, including the gun, when designing the plane.

We are discussing a design feature of the J-20, not capabilities. How hopeless the J-20 is against the F-22 is not my concern.

 

[Iron Man]

The problem is Vesicles, A gun system would be visible if it was installed even on a stealth. there should be a visible door to allow the weapon to fire.
If you look at the Raptor or the lightning there is a visible identifiable structure where the gun system resides. Even T50 Pakfa has a identifiable gun port. J20 does not.

Not if it were a smaller gun (i.e. non-Gatling) and it had to open to fire. In which case we need see absolutely no external evidence of one. There are many dorsal panels on the J-20 that could end up being the panel for a gun that I think it's premature to conclude one way or the other, at least for now.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

you may not need a bulge on the structure but you would still need both a access hatch and a port with a door for the weapon to fire out of. the Pakfa uses a GSh 301 cannon which is not a gatling style and is one of the two cannon the PLAAF would likely mount in J20 and it has a identifiable gun port.

 

[Iron Man]

you may not need a bulge on the structure but you would still need both a access hatch and a port with a door for the weapon to fire out of. the Pakfa uses a GSh 301 cannon which is not a gatling style and is one of the two cannon the PLAAF would likely mount in J20 and it has a identifiable gun port.
View attachment 36709

Even if the gun is the same this doesn't mean the external features would be the same, or even the way the gun is mounted internally. The external features of the F-22's gun are already difficult to identify and I doubt you personally could identify the purposes of all the external features on the dorsal surface of the J-20, so I don't know why you feel so certain there is no gun on the J-20.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

It is really fascinating to read about what happened 45 years ago---the F4 saga---and then supplanting it on a 21st century fighter interceptor air superiority aircraft and giving ' that reason ' why it should have a cannon..

You know how far technology has come in combat----at that time there was one maybe two snipers in the world who could hit a 1000 yards shot---.

Today---every jack-ass with a good rifle---a good scope and good ammo is making a 1000 yards shots---youtube is filled up with them.

45 years ago---those big guns on those battleships had to fire multiple rounds to get the distance right---.

Today---systems are available that will hit close to 100 Km on first shot first hit---.

Over 30 plus years now---not a single engagement where cannons have been fired---.

Who would allow a 100---200 million dollar aircraft to get within 100-150 yards of another aircraft get a lock and pull the trigger.

And how would that happen in the first place---all the fuel is burnt off in avoiding the BVR missiles---WVR missiles---.

Where would the fuel come from to engage in a hectic gun fight????

 

[Blitzo]

Still no indication of a gun.

God damn it, can people stop mentioning this.

Yes, there's no indication of a gun. Big deal. It's a fairly decent sized stealth fighter, with enough internal room for a gun mount to be flush with the external fuselage. It's not a big surprise for the lack of indication of a gun to still be ongoing at this point. If anything, I'd argue that the lack of an indication of a gun should be pretty much par for the course.


Please accept the likely fact that if this does have a gun, we will probably only see it when the air force decides to reveal it to us in an official picture or maybe the CCTV documentary about the J-20's development one day.

Otherwise, stop whipping schrodinger's horse.



The "we see no gun on J-20" mantra has become almost as irritating as the "J-20 is 23m long" idiocy, which in turn is only matched by the "J-20 is a dedicated interceptor/striker" stupidity.