J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
2016, 2017, an old photo?

View attachment 35882

The "Twins", they are lovely, lovely ladies! perhaps I could log a little flight time with the test squadron if I go by my nic from the Old Man??? "One Wing Lo"??

Maybe Trump will buy us a couple to make up a "Red Air" squadron??? Those guys in the "Aggressor Squadrons" lived in a separate barracks and had the uniforms, and Helmet painted up just like our friends??

So, aren't we due for another batch, Master Deino, Master Delft, and I know there is a new building dedicated to the J-20, so how gentlemen, will they "Ramp Up production", will they build bigger batches or just turn out more "batches" faster?? I'm expecting to see another batch begin to release after the "Chinese New Year??" would that be about the timing we have seen so far??
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Here's an article with some authoritative takes on the J-20's weakness.

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The US Marine Corps did not mince words when deploying F-35s to Japan, saying that the "arrival of the F-35B embodies our commitment to the defense of Japan and the regional security of the Pacific."

Tensions among the US, US allies, and China have been
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for years as China builds artificial islands and outfits them with radar outposts and missile launchers in the South China Sea, home to a shipping corridor that sees $5 trillion in trade annually.

One area where the US and China have indirectly competed has been in combat aviation.

In November, China
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, a large, stealthy jet that some have compared to the F-22 Raptor. But according to experts, the J-20 is not a fighter, not a dogfighter, not stealthy, and not at all like the F-22 or F-35.

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, a senior analyst at the
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, told Business Insider that the J-20 is a "fundamentally different sort of aircraft than the F-35."

Davis characterized the J-20 as "high-speed, long-range, not quite as stealthy (as US fifth-gen aircraft), but [the Chinese] clearly don't see that as important." According to Davis, the J-20 is "not a fighter, but an interceptor and a strike aircraft" that doesn't seek to contend with US jets in air-to-air battles.

Instead, "the Chinese are recognizing they can attack critical airborne support systems like AWACS (airborne early warning and control systems) and refueling planes so they can't do their job," Davis said. "If you can force the tankers back, then the F-35s and other platforms aren't sufficient because they can't reach their target."

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Without tanker planes to refuel, US jets like the F-35 have a severely limited range. Cpl. Brian Burdett/US Marine Corps

Retired US Air Force Lt. Gen. David Deptula gave a similar assessment of the J-20 to
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in November.

"The J-20, in particular, is different than the F-22 in the context that, if you take a look and analyze the design, it may have some significant low-observable capabilities on the front end, but not all aspects — nor is it built as a dogfighter," Deptula said. "But quite frankly, the biggest concern is its design to carry long-range weapons."

What the J-20 lacks in stealth and dogfighting ability it makes up for by focusing on a single, comparatively soft type of target. Unlike the US, which has fielded extremely stealthy aircraft, China lacks the experience to create a plane that baffles radars from all angles.

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A senior scientist at Lockheed Martin told Business Insider that the Chinese made serious missteps when trying to integrate stealth into the J-20.

"It's apparent from looking at many pictures of the aircraft that the designers don't fully understand all the concepts of LO design," the scientist said, referring to low-observable, or stealth, design.


Instead, the J-20's design makes for a plane that's somewhat stealthy from the front angle, as it uses its long range and long-range missiles to fly far out and hit tankers and radar planes that support platforms like the F-35 or F-22.

"They're moving into an era where they're designing aircraft not just as an evolution of what they used to have, but they're going into a new space," Deptula said of China's J-20 concept.

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This is one of the more popular images of the J-20, but it's a digital rendering.
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However, the J-20 may still be a long way off.

In November,
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, a research fellow specializing in combat airpower at the
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, told Business Insider that the models displayed at Airshow China were
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.

"It's possible that the aircraft that were shown are still instrumented production aircraft," or planes with "loads of sensors to monitor performance" instead of in a combat-ready formation, he said.

Former F-35 and F-22 pilot
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also questioned China's progress in an interview with Business Insider, saying "it's really, really, really hard to make an effective nose-to-tail platform in the fifth gen."

Far from feeling threatened by the J-20, Berke seemed vindicated that the US's potential adversaries have worked so hard to counter emerging US capabilities like the F-35.

"If the things we were doing [with the F-35 and F-22] weren't relevant, effective, the competition wouldn't be worried about trying to match it," Berke said.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Here's an article with some authoritative takes on the J-20's weakness.

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If they said that the J-20's design made some trade-offs resulting in slightly lower stealth or that there could be some limitations due to the current engine, I'd consider maybe they knew a thing or 2. When they say something that's clearly a fighter isn't a fighter and that the designers didn't even understand the concepts of low visibility, making the aircraft unstealthy just by visual inspection, that's how you know they're scared. That's how you talk when you hate your rival so much you just wanna talk shiet and spread rumors about him to people who don't know. Maybe he should leave his name and some specifics on what's wrong with it next time he's whistling past the graveyard. Lemme guess; he's gonna say it's too large and canards aren't stealthy...
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Business Insider is notoriously anti-China. You can find plenty of people inside and out that say the F-35 is full of missteps. If it were China that built the F-22 exactly how it is and then cancelled it in favor of the "F-35," you know what they would be saying? The F-22 turned out to be a failure because if it was better than even the F-35, they would've kept making it not cancel it. No different from Pinkov claiming China wants the Su-35 because China found out that all their domestic fighter programs were inferior to everyone else's and that's what people wanted to believe. And then you have to wonder if the US gets it right all the time, why would people be yearning for the F-22 to come back? Everything they make along the way should be better than the last. So either the F-35 is really superior to the F-22 or the F-22 isn't as good as people think because they cancelled it. Either way it doesn't bode well because of all the outside and insider criticism we've heard on the F-35 meaning both aircraft are full of missteps. This is their logic right back them.
 

Lethe

Captain
But according to experts, the J-20 is not a fighter, not a dogfighter, not stealthy, and not at all like the F-22 or F-35 [....]

What the J-20 lacks in stealth and dogfighting ability it makes up for by focusing on a single, comparatively soft type of target. Unlike the US, which has fielded extremely stealthy aircraft, China lacks the experience to create a plane that baffles radars from all angles [....]

Somebody punch this idiot, please.
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
This portion of the article intrigues me the most:

A senior scientist at Lockheed Martin told Business Insider that the Chinese made serious missteps when trying to integrate stealth into the J-20.

"It's apparent from looking at many pictures of the aircraft that the designers don't fully understand all the concepts of LO design," the scientist said, referring to low-observable, or stealth, design.
I would love to know who this person is, which division he works in, and what concepts he is referring to.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
This portion of the article intrigues me the most:


I would love to know who this person is, which division he works in, and what concepts he is referring to.
For me that claim stood out as particularly odd, because it's not like they can't measure RCS in China, and it's not like they couldn't have studied, visually, what other designs were doing. Also, a huge part of RCS is material selection and matching and even internal structures, and you can't eyeball that...
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
For me that claim stood out as particularly odd, because it's not like they can't measure RCS in China, and it's not like they couldn't have studied, visually, what other designs were doing. Also, a huge part of RCS is material selection and matching and even internal structures, and you can't eyeball that...


Ohh ... over there at the PakistanDefenceForum there are a few - at least one - very special guy, who can deduct from a few grainy video-seconds that the J-20 has a the capability turn between 36-45 deg/sec, has an engine that delivers +210 kN of thrust, is capable of surely Mach 3 if not more, features plasma-stealth technology .... :p:D:p
 
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