J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

[manqiangrexue]

It's hard to take your arguments seriously, when they are self-cancelling.

They're only self-cancelling if you lack proper reading comprehension or if you insist on reading them in a manner that says only what you wish them to say.

And the F-117 was not updated. That's obvious and that's how he wants to confer that J-20 is outdated. If F-117 was updated every year with the best, then it would be a fine achievement for the J-20's avionics to match that of the F-117.

"Russians say that T-50 will be superior to F-22. You think it's because they have classified information so their statements must be taken to be truth? Or does that logic only apply to US statements?"

How about this one? Didn't like it so you ignored it?

 

[Blackstone]

Even given that the F-117 avionics were constantly being upgraded, that plane has been retired for a decade. Just on that factual basis, the idea that the J-20 is comparable to a decade old F-117 is pretty laughable when we consider what the J-10 and J-11 have in comparison.

My point isn't to say China has better or worse avionics than the US. In terms of what I was originally replying to, I could care less how the J-10's avionics compares with the F-16's. I brought up a comparison between the avionics of the F-117 and the J-10/J-11 to show what I meant when I said the General doesn't seem to know what he's talking about.

We will have to agree to disagree on General Goldfein, but I appreciate your reasonable manners.

 

[Blackstone]

They're only self-cancelling if you lack proper reading comprehension or if you insist on reading them in a manner that says only what you wish them to say.

And the F-117 was not updated. That's obvious and that's how he wants to confer that J-20 is outdated. If F-117 was updated every year with the best, then it would be a fine achievement for the J-20's avionics to match that of the F-117.

"Russians say that T-50 will be superior to F-22. You think it's because they have classified information so their statements must be taken to be truth? Or does that logic only apply to US statements?"

How about this one? Didn't like it so you ignored it?

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Hyperwarp]

General David L. Goldfein comparing the J-20 to the F-117 has to do with networking, connectivity, etc. The way the F-35 can share and gather information with fellow F-35's and other components of the US military and their allies. It was not that the J-20 performs like an F-117.

It is possible he made that comment because at that time according to his sources some of the J-20 systems were not ready or up to the level of the F-35. We don't know anything about the J-20 sub-systems. For example, the most advance piece in the F-22 is the passive AN/ALR-94 which rumored to have a range more than twice that of the AN/APG-77 and helps the Raptor hunt down prey without emitting any signals and unlike the AN/APG-77 it is a 360' system.

 

[Blackstone]

General David L. Goldfein comparing the J-20 to the F-117 has to do with networking, connectivity, etc. The way the F-35 can share and gather information with fellow F-35's and other components of the US military and their allies. It was not that the J-20 performs like an F-117.

It is possible he made that comment because at that time according to his sources some of the J-20 systems were not ready or up to the level of the F-35. We don't know anything about the J-20 sub-systems. For example, the most advance piece in the F-22 is the passive AN/ALR-94 which rumored to have a range more than twice that of the AN/APG-77 and helps the Raptor hunt down prey without emitting any signals and unlike the AN/APG-77 it is a 360' system.

That's why I think fanbois are irrationally exuberant. The J-20 might turn out to be the greatest thing since slice bread, but the public just don't have enough facts to know either way, at this point in time. Until more facts come out, the pecking order of believability goes from highly placed government or military officials, to insider rumors, to sites like SDF, to individual defense enthusiasts.

 

[latenlazy]

General David L. Goldfein comparing the J-20 to the F-117 has to do with networking, connectivity, etc. The way the F-35 can share and gather information with fellow F-35's and other components of the US military and their allies. It was not that the J-20 performs like an F-117.

It is possible he made that comment because at that time according to his sources some of the J-20 systems were not ready or up to the level of the F-35. We don't know anything about the J-20 sub-systems. For example, the most advance piece in the F-22 is the passive AN/ALR-94 which rumored to have a range more than twice that of the AN/APG-77 and helps the Raptor hunt down prey without emitting any signals and unlike the AN/APG-77 it is a 360' system.

I'm aware, but, again, that's why I brought up the J-10 and J-11. I would be surprised if even their network capabilities were only at best comparable to the F-117's.

 

[manqiangrexue]

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Agree to disagree on what? That you think whatever the US says is about rival fighters is definitely true but what other governments say is not? And that I think we need to evaluate statements from all governments equally (especially when they have no backing evidence)? Agree to disagree infers some sort of opposite viewpoints that cannot be resolved due to their equality in logic but what happened here is that you just put your illogical wishful thinking on this thread and when challenged with actual logic, you couldn't back it up. All you had was, "A general in the USAF said it so it must be true, even though he provided no evidence, because government officials never lie, are never wrong, don't have biased interests, and totally won't say things when they don't know what they're talking about. That would be unlike an official LOL"

 

[manqiangrexue]

That's why I think fanbois are irrationally exuberant. The J-20 might turn out to be the greatest thing since slice bread, but the public just don't have enough facts to know either way, at this point in time. Until more facts come out, the pecking order of believability goes from highly placed government or military officials, to insider rumors, to sites like SDF, to individual defense enthusiasts.

That's an interesting pecking order. You didn't seem to go by it when Chinese officials said that WS-10 was reliable, passed many milestones, and could put out over 140kN. Is this a new pecking order you made up today? If your local deli owner told you tomorrow that 10 WS-10G blew up in testing last week, is the new pecking order tomorrow gonna be deli owners, government officials, military officials, etc...? LOL

 

[dingyibvs]

That's why I think fanbois are irrationally exuberant. The J-20 might turn out to be the greatest thing since slice bread, but the public just don't have enough facts to know either way, at this point in time. Until more facts come out, the pecking order of believability goes from highly placed government or military officials, to insider rumors, to sites like SDF, to individual defense enthusiasts.

Highly placed government or military officials...of which country? What happens when they state conflicting info? What if a Chinese general says the J-20 is more advanced than the F-35? Does the immovable object meet the irresistable force? Heck, what if two U.S. officials have conflicting opinions over the F-35? Because we know that never happens?

 

[vesicles]

That's a straw man argument, because US stopped upgrading the F-117. A better comparison is between J-10 and F-16, as both planes continue to receive upgrades. Now, is anyone going to argue the most up to date F-16 is inferior to the most up to date J-10?

But the general's point has always been that the J-20 is packed with the old technology found on the then deployed F-117A. That's why he argued that the J-20 is equivalent to the F-117A.

If the USAF keeps upgrading the F-117A, then the current F-117A would have been equipped with newest hardware. I don't think that's his point...