J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

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TerraN_EmpirE

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Also, please show me where you can get a late gen F16 for $34m and I'll line you up every F16 user, including the USAF, wanting some more for that price.
I based that on an Inflationary figure of 18.8million from 1998 based on F16C block 52 not a newer version.
If you consider the Maturity of the design and numbers built a very low per unit cost is logical for a 4th gen F16 a design over 40 years old vs A very high per unit cost and new design of less than a decade for F22.

Look at the likes of Commanche, F35, LCS, DDG1000 etc.

All ridiculously over-engineered with every advance idea and option imaginable being thrown in irrespective of cost, timeframe or even operational utility it seems sometimes (rail guns on the DDG1000 for example, do you really want such a monstrously expensive warship so close to a hostile coast, if you only plan to send them in after the coast has been secured, well then, do you really need those ships at all?).
and travel back in time and this argument gets repeated with every first of it's kind new generation. " Why do we need carriers When we have Battleships, Why do we need Radar when we have eye sight, Why missiles when we have cannon, Why Subs when we have destroyers, Why Tanks when we have Cavalry..." and yet What has happened? The Russians and Chinese are racing to catch up to F35 And F22.
 

Blitzo

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Going back to the optical HSDB discussion from a few pages back, Huitong has clarified what he meant, and like I thought, he confirmed that he meant the optical HSDB as a general term rather than a specific MIL-STD or a specific product.

His exact reply:

"That was one of the speculations I picked up somewhere (probably at cjdby.net) many years ago. So far I have been unable to verify it. BTW Optical HSDB is just a general term, currently Chinese should have the capability to develop such technology."


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Quickie

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Going back to the optical HSDB discussion from a few pages back, Huitong has clarified what he meant, and like I thought, he confirmed that he meant the optical HSDB as a general term rather than a specific MIL-STD or a specific product.

His exact reply:

"That was one of the speculations I picked up somewhere (probably at cjdby.net) many years ago. So far I have been unable to verify it. BTW Optical HSDB is just a general term, currently Chinese should have the capability to develop such technology."


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If the Optical HSDB technology under consideration already has a corresponding MIL-STD, most likely the Chinese designers will just adopt it for the sake of future compatibility. Doing so wouldn't give away any secrets in regard to the exact specifications, functions or capability.
 

Blitzo

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If the Optical HSDB technology under consideration already has a corresponding MIL-STD, most likely the Chinese designers will just adopt it for the sake of future compatibility. Doing so wouldn't give away any secrets in regard to the exact specifications, functions or capability.

Well that is what was asking; whether he meant the optical HSDB in a general term or a specific MIL-STD, and he said he meant it in the former sense rather than the latter. Whether the shriek HSDB week correspond to any particular standard or if they will develop their own standard is anybody's guess.

But it seems like much of this is still relatively based on speculation so discussing it in to much depth probably isn't of much value.
 

plawolf

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I based that on an Inflationary figure of 18.8million from 1998 based on F16C block 52 not a newer version.

So comparing apples to oranges then.

If you consider the Maturity of the design and numbers built a very low per unit cost is logical for a 4th gen F16 a design over 40 years old vs A very high per unit cost and new design of less than a decade for F22.

That's very good reasoning, but too bad it doesn't stack up to the reality of how much late gen F16s are going for these days.

Is the latest new built Blk52 really more than twice the plane of the 1998 version, even adjusting for inflation? To justify more than double the price tag? Especially considering the upgrade in performance you get get by applying a decent MLU to your 1998 vintage F16 and still have a total package price of around half what new built F16s are going for today.

It makes zero sense to insist them Chinese will see a similar, unjustifiably huge, price spike in their weapons costs just because America is suffering such a problem.

and travel back in time and this argument gets repeated with every first of it's kind new generation. " Why do we need carriers When we have Battleships, Why do we need Radar when we have eye sight, Why missiles when we have cannon, Why Subs when we have destroyers, Why Tanks when we have Cavalry..." and yet What has happened?

Yeah, nice cherry picking there. But you perhaps didn't notice the gaping holes in your reasoning.

Firstly and most obviously, not everything America makes is a sure-fire blockbuster success.

There are plenty of firsts that have gone down like a lead ballon never to be resurrected.

Based on performance, costs-benefit analysis and intended role, the examples I listed don't look anything like a blockbuster ready to change the game, and seem more like near misses or even outright flops.

Funny you brought up the whole carrier vs battleship example, since the DDG1000 is a battleship, with the big guns to prove it. Do you want to work out which side you want to take first?

The LCS is over-engineered, over costed and under-armed, and there are two different designs both aiming to fill exactly the same roles because that makes perfect sense. :rolleyes:

The F35 looks OK in isolation, but it's entering service more than a decade after the F22, does it look or feel like a decade beyond the F22?

How many pilots would seriously pick the F35 over the F22 in a fight, even with the F22 in its current, politically motivated, upgrade starved form?

The F22 was a blockbuster. The F35 is like your typical sequel.

The Russians and Chinese are racing to catch up to F35 And F22.

F22 yes, F35, not so much.

Nor do you see them in any hurry to make their own LCS or DDG1000.

Just because the US decided to go a certain direction is by no means any proof or guarante that that is the right path for America to be taking, never mind China, who has a very different security environment and needs.

Similarly, just because the US arms industry is charging unjustifiable price hikes is no indication that the Chinese arms industry will do the same.
 

FORBIN

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I check it... this Division around Chongqing get 2 J-7 Rgts to replaced but far in the interior so for a front line fighter... definitely again a fake someone play.

They are much more logic locations, bases which use J-7 close of the coast 200/300 km can replaced also Q-5.
 

Deino

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I check it... this Division around Chongqing get 2 J-7 Rgts to replaced but far in the interior so for a front line fighter... definitely again a fake someone play.

They are much more logic locations, bases which use J-7 close of the coast 200/300 km can replaced also Q-5.

Surely the plaaf will not replace a q-5 or j-7 unit ans imo the 33. Div makes perfectly sense... Following the reports i read the numbers are 4054x ... A current j-11a unit
 

FORBIN

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Surely the plaaf will not replace a q-5 or j-7 unit ans imo the 33. Div makes perfectly sense... Following the reports i read the numbers are 4054x ... A current j-11a unit
I didn' t understand replaced a recent by a recent for me illogic. After this reports ?
 
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