J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

[latenlazy]

The ATD-X, to be flown in 2014, will demonstrate some of the technologies intended for the F-3. Full-scale development would begin in 2016 or 2017 and the first prototype would fly in 2024-25, according to the ministry's plans. Series production is to begin in 2027 and the type would begin replacing Mitsubishi Heavy Industries F-2 strike fighters in the first half of the 2030s

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the japanese are not working on a 5th generation fighter but a 6th generation one why?

Japanese participation in the next U.S. fighter program is now conceivable because Tokyo has relaxed its arms-export restrictions, which in the past have largely prevented its industry from working with foreign partners. The way is not entirely open for cooperation, however, since Japan might be reluctant to supply some countries that the U.S. sees as suitable customers

plus the article says

The ministry also wants to push ahead Japanese ECM technology, to preserve national independence in that area that was developed in building a system for the F-15. The ECM work must be part of what the ministry calls an “all-around surveillance and jamming system.” Japan is also looking for “reflection suppression” technology, apparently distinct from stealth shaping and materials. Details are unavailable. Results of this electro-magnetic work are to be assessed in 2019.

Other work flagged for the i3 Fighter might be enticingly dangled under the Pentagon's nose, though. The Technical Research and Development Institute and industry are working on skin sensors, directed-energy weapons and advanced avionics

I don't believe Japan has even done a study to flesh out the requirements for a 6th generation platform. It sounds like what they're really trying to do is to get started on some technology research so that they can pull the US in for joint development.

Paper airplane accusations aside (since that's what they used to say about the J-20 too), this thing won't even begin prototype testing for a while. I doubt it would be put into production in time, and by then China could very well be developing their own next generation fighter.

 

[latenlazy]

Re: SAC stealth striker

I think China and Russia would be well-advised to team up on the PAK DA project. China would get a stealthier and more fuel-efficient Tu-160. That would give US and Japanese planners real nightmares--88,000kg of precision-guided ordnance showing up at Mach 1.5 from a sea-skimming, stealthy bomber with 6,000 km of operating range?

I'm dubious about that. It seems clear to me that China has every intention of breaking away from dependency on Russian military exports. Furthermore, while the PAK-DA's potential capabilities sound nice, I think they might be a bit excessive for the PLA. It might not be worth the money to spend money on capabilities they won't use.

 

[leibowitz]

Re: SAC stealth striker

I'm dubious about that. It seems clear to me that China has every intention of breaking away from dependency on Russian military exports. Furthermore, while the PAK-DA's potential capabilities sound nice, I think they might be a bit excessive for the PLA. It might not be worth the money to spend money on capabilities they won't use.

Which is why China should push for a joint-development model as opposed to a simple import model. By getting involved in the R&D, China becomes much less dependent on the project than if Russia simply built the thing itself and then China (possibly) bought it.

 

[leibowitz]

The ATD-X, to be flown in 2014, will demonstrate some of the technologies intended for the F-3. Full-scale development would begin in 2016 or 2017 and the first prototype would fly in 2024-25, according to the ministry's plans. Series production is to begin in 2027 and the type would begin replacing Mitsubishi Heavy Industries F-2 strike fighters in the first half of the 2030s

Except the J-20 already flew in 2010? Also, 2027 is quite a long ways away. The J-20 is expected to start serial production sometime in the 2017-18 timeframe, with the J-31 following shortly thereafter. The Japanese project will be a good 10 years behind the Chinese one in terms of getting the technology onto a production-ready platform.

 

[latenlazy]

Re: SAC stealth striker

Which is why China should push for a joint-development model as opposed to a simple import model. By getting involved in the R&D, China becomes much less dependent on the project than if Russia simply built the thing itself and then China (possibly) bought it.

Well, I also don't think Russia would permit that kind of relationship with China. They see China as a potential rival to their lucrative export business, especially given China's tendency to indigenize (some would say copy/pirate) and master shared technologies at a quick rate. But again, my sense of doubt primarily comes from the fact that the PAK-DA would over perform and offer the PLA capabilities it won't need.

 

[MiG-29]

Except the J-20 already flew in 2010? Also, 2027 is quite a long ways away. The J-20 is expected to start serial production sometime in the 2017-18 timeframe, with the J-31 following shortly thereafter. The Japanese project will be a good 10 years behind the Chinese one in terms of getting the technology onto a production-ready platform.

Japan is in no Rush because in Japan there are more F-22 right now than in China J-20s

Twelve F-22 Raptors and 300 staff from the US Air Force are to arrive at Kadena Air base in Japan today. That’s according to Japan’s Kyodo News Agency.

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Also Japan in buying F-35s to be delivery on 2016-2020 time

DDH-181 Hyuga & USN’s
LHD-2, post-tsunami
(click to view entire)The F-35B’s STOVL (Short Take Off, Vertical Landing) capabilities might make it an especially valuable future option, as a defensive aircraft that could operate from dispersed land locations, rather than bases that are easily targeted by enemy missiles.

It has a shorter range than other variants, but Japan is also fielding 18DDH Hyuga Class helicopter carriers for roles like disaster response, and will soon field larger 22DDH ships. They’re called “helicopter destroyers,” because Japan is currently prohibited from operating aircraft carriers, but it should be noted that other countries are planning to operate F-35Bs from ships that are comparable to the 22DDHs.


and F-3 is a 5th generation ++ or perhaps a 6th generation

Meanwhile, Japanese industry is trying to figure out how to keep itself busy now that license production of F-15 components and F-2s is ending. The Society of Japanese Aerospace Companies’ proposal involves producing F-X fighters and their F-XX follow-on buy until 2028, and having some of the 100-120 planes replace existing F-15Js as well. That would be followed by a Japanese fighter design, to begin development by 2017 based in part on lessons learned from their ongoing ATD-X stealth technology demonstrator. Japan hopes to fly ATD-X in 2014-2016, and the SJAC’s idea was that its successor could enter production around 2028, as the foreign-designed F-X fighter line closed down

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[jobjed]

Japan is in no Rush because in Japan there are more F-22 right now than in China J-20s

Twelve F-22 Raptors and 300 staff from the US Air Force are to arrive at Kadena Air base in Japan today. That’s according to Japan’s Kyodo News Agency.

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Also Japan in buying F-35s to be delivery on 2016-2020 time

DDH-181 Hyuga & USN’s
LHD-2, post-tsunami
(click to view entire)The F-35B’s STOVL (Short Take Off, Vertical Landing) capabilities might make it an especially valuable future option, as a defensive aircraft that could operate from dispersed land locations, rather than bases that are easily targeted by enemy missiles.

It has a shorter range than other variants, but Japan is also fielding 18DDH Hyuga Class helicopter carriers for roles like disaster response, and will soon field larger 22DDH ships. They’re called “helicopter destroyers,” because Japan is currently prohibited from operating aircraft carriers, but it should be noted that other countries are planning to operate F-35Bs from ships that are comparable to the 22DDHs.


and F-3 is a 5th generation ++ or perhaps a 6th generation

Meanwhile, Japanese industry is trying to figure out how to keep itself busy now that license production of F-15 components and F-2s is ending. The Society of Japanese Aerospace Companies’ proposal involves producing F-X fighters and their F-XX follow-on buy until 2028, and having some of the 100-120 planes replace existing F-15Js as well. That would be followed by a Japanese fighter design, to begin development by 2017 based in part on lessons learned from their ongoing ATD-X stealth technology demonstrator. Japan hopes to fly ATD-X in 2014-2016, and the SJAC’s idea was that its successor could enter production around 2028, as the foreign-designed F-X fighter line closed down

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Oh yeah, because those F-22's are under the direct control of Japanese authorities and not American. And of course those F-35's will be delivered on schedule because the F-35 program has a reputation for not being delayed. Of course, of course. I have no doubt that Japan, being bankrupted and suffering from 2 1/2 decades of economic stagnation, will be able to afford these costly 6th gen projects which even the US has not fully begun to explore yet.

Oh by the way, I hope your English is good enough to understand sarcasm, otherwise, the irony would be sadly lost.

 

[MiG-29]

Oh yeah, because those F-22's are under the direct control of Japanese authorities and not American. And of course those F-35's will be delivered on schedule because the F-35 program has a reputation for not being delayed. Of course, of course. I have no doubt that Japan, being bankrupted and suffering from 2 1/2 decades of economic stagnation, will be able to afford these costly 6th gen projects which even the US has not fully begun to explore yet.

Oh by the way, I hope your English is good enough to understand sarcasm, otherwise, the irony would be sadly lost.

J-20 has started a arms race in Asia, and as long as those F-22 are there does not matter if they are japanese or not, they are there for a reason, i hope you guess that those F-22 are 12, more than all J-20s, J-31s or T-50 put togather, and the point for the japanese it is good they are there

 

[tphuang]

J-20 has started a arms race in Asia, and as long as those F-22 are there does not matter if they are japanese or not, they are there for a reason, i hope you guess that those F-22 are 12, more than all J-20s, J-31s ot T-50 put togather, and the point for the japanese it is good they are there

Mig-29, it looks like you are deliberately antagonizing people on this board, please stop this act.

 

[MiG-29]

Mig-29, it looks like you are deliberately antagonizing people on this board, please stop this act.

i did not antagonism any one, i just said japan has more advanced jet programs, however those who speak ill of the japanese are not called antagonaisers, be fair, i can stop talking about Japanese fighter and but judge with fairness, any way in Japan they have also Computer images of J-20s blown by Japanese fighters however it seems you are okay with J-20 downing F-2s as long as the boot is in the foot you think is the good guy.