J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

[Munir]

The major opponent for PLAAF at the moment is Japan. There is not much the Japanese can do against the J20 or J11. The best option they have is the F16 clone. And I doubt that it would be used in a2a. So, it is no wonder that the USA is testing F22 on Japanese ground...

 

[MiG-29]

Sharing my 2 cents...

J-20 would not be used together with J-11 or J-10B, as a matter of fact they would not compliment each other. If the PLAAF were to adopt a low-high combat with J-10B and J-20 for combat mission and the J-10B were to be detected by enemy radar, it is as good as telling others the J-20 is just right around the corner. J-20 should be paired up with J-31 or the rumoured J-18 or any further J-20 upgrades.

The same goes for Japanese F-35s which were early rumoured to compliment the F-15Js, but if the radar spots a F-15J, the F-35 would be around.

J-20 would however, add more combat options and alternatives for PLAAF staff officers to choose a solo/dual stealth mission to neutralise an enemy threat - foreign or domestic - in a current air division of J-11s and J-10s.

the japanese are developing a 5th generation technology demostrator and will build i think a 6th generation fighter from it, F-15 won`t be used along side F-35, the Shinshin is supposedly to replace F-15

So if everything goes well, Japan is planning something like a F-35 +　local superfighter in a heavy light combo like J-20 and J-31

 

[MiG-29]

The major opponent for PLAAF at the moment is Japan. There is not much the Japanese can do against the J20 or J11. The best option they have is the F16 clone. And I doubt that it would be used in a2a. So, it is no wonder that the USA is testing F22 on Japanese ground...

Actually that is not accurate, Japan already is building a 5th generation technology demostrator fighter

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And J-20 still is a prototype, F-22 are flown regularly from US bases in Japan.

However what stage is japan on their super fighter is difficult to know

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[leibowitz]

Actually that is not accurate, Japan already is building a 5th generation technology demostrator fighter

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And J-20 still is a prototype, F-22 are flown regularly from US bases in Japan.

However what stage is japan on their super fighter is difficult to know

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The Japanese fighter won't be out for a while, and their main 5th gen fighter will be the oh-so-awesome F-35.

 

[plawolf]

Sharing my 2 cents...

J-20 would not be used together with J-11 or J-10B, as a matter of fact they would not compliment each other. If the PLAAF were to adopt a low-high combat with J-10B and J-20 for combat mission and the J-10B were to be detected by enemy radar, it is as good as telling others the J-20 is just right around the corner. J-20 should be paired up with J-31 or the rumoured J-18 or any further J-20 upgrades.

The same goes for Japanese F-35s which were early rumoured to compliment the F-15Js, but if the radar spots a F-15J, the F-35 would be around.

J-20 would however, add more combat options and alternatives for PLAAF staff officers to choose a solo/dual stealth mission to neutralise an enemy threat - foreign or domestic - in a current air division of J-11s and J-10s.

Firstly, there is no way anyone would dare make the assumption that there is bound to be a J20 around every time they spot a J10 or J11 just because a J20 was nearby last time.

Secondly, even if someone was willing to make such a broad assumption, suspecting a J20 is 'around the corner' is very different to having a radar lock on it. If anything, the PLAAF would love it for enemies to think that as it will make them too scared to respond to J10s and J11s half the time, which is half the battle won.

Thirdly, conventional fighters like the J10 and J11 are only detectable on radar if there is an enemy radar actively emitting to look for them. With J20s flying top cover and taking out any actively scanning enemy radars, the enemy won't be able to detect even conventional designs like J10s and J11s if none of their radars are actively scanning.

Pairing stealths with conventionals also have many other significant advantages. For example, a stealth can only carry a limited number of missiles internally if it wants to retain its VLO status, a conventional heavy fighter like a J11 are not so limited and can carry a significantly larger number of missiles. Through the use of datalinks, the J11 can act as a missile caddy for the J20, taking shots where possible to allow the J20 to save its limited warload for when it will matter the most.

Alternatively, a J11 can go on full active scanning mode since it does not need to worry about avoiding detection, and can provide a J20 with targeting information without the J20 needing to emit itself. This can be a massive boost to the J20 because with modern digital EW kit, even LPI scan modes are far from guarenteed to be able to actively scan without being detected.

Those are only some of the most basic and obvious ways stealth and conventional fighters can complement each other, and as the PLAAF train and experiment with J20s more, they will no doubt find many more ways and advanages to make the most out of such pairings.

 

[plawolf]

the japanese are developing a 5th generation technology demostrator and will build i think a 6th generation fighter from it, F-15 won`t be used along side F-35, the Shinshin is supposedly to replace F-15

So if everything goes well, Japan is planning something like a F-35 +　local superfighter in a heavy light combo like J-20 and J-31

Ha! Wet dream much? That's not even counting your chickens before they hatch, more like counting your chickens before the species has even evolved yet.

Talk of a Japanese fifth gen is wildly optimistic at this point since their efforts is not even at the paper airplane stage. Barring a minor miracle, the only way the Japanese fifth gen will fly is if someone literally made a paper airplane out of the few sketches and preliminary design drawings they have made of it and threw it across the room.

 

[leibowitz]

Firstly, there is no way anyone would dare make the assumption that there is bound to be a J20 around every time they spot a J10 or J11 just because a J20 was nearby last time.

Secondly, even if someone was willing to make such a broad assumption, suspecting a J20 is 'around the corner' is very different to having a radar lock on it. If anything, the PLAAF would love it for enemies to think that as it will make them too scared to respond to J10s and J11s half the time, which is half the battle won.

Thirdly, conventional fighters like the J10 and J11 are only detectable on radar if there is an enemy radar actively emitting to look for them. With J20s flying top cover and taking out any actively scanning enemy radars, the enemy won't be able to detect even conventional designs like J10s and J11s if none of their radars are actively scanning.

Pairing stealths with conventionals also have many other significant advantages. For example, a stealth can only carry a limited number of missiles internally if it wants to retain its VLO status, a conventional heavy fighter like a J11 are not so limited and can carry a significantly larger number of missiles. Through the use of datalinks, the J11 can act as a missile caddy for the J20, taking shots where possible to allow the J20 to save its limited warload for when it will matter the most.

Alternatively, a J11 can go on full active scanning mode since it does not need to worry about avoiding detection, and can provide a J20 with targeting information without the J20 needing to emit itself. This can be a massive boost to the J20 because with modern digital EW kit, even LPI scan modes are far from guarenteed to be able to actively scan without being detected.

Those are only some of the most basic and obvious ways stealth and conventional fighters can complement each other, and as the PLAAF train and experiment with J20s more, they will no doubt find many more ways and advanages to make the most out of such pairings.

This is very true, and represent key reasons why China is investing in the J-16 upgrade for its J-11/11B fleet. A few J-20s guided by J-16s to knock out AWACS and F-35s; then the J-16s go om nom nom with their massive A2A payload on everything else.

 

[jobjed]

This is very true, and represent key reasons why China is investing in the J-16 upgrade for its J-11/11B fleet. A few J-20s guided by J-16s to knock out AWACS and F-35s; then the J-16s go om nom nom with their massive A2A payload on everything else.

J-20 won't be able to see the F-35 until within visual range. But the F-35 will be able to see the J-16's on radar, I have no idea how your scenario works out.

 

[MiG-29]

The Japanese fighter won't be out for a while, and their main 5th gen fighter will be the oh-so-awesome F-35.

The ATD-X, to be flown in 2014, will demonstrate some of the technologies intended for the F-3. Full-scale development would begin in 2016 or 2017 and the first prototype would fly in 2024-25, according to the ministry's plans. Series production is to begin in 2027 and the type would begin replacing Mitsubishi Heavy Industries F-2 strike fighters in the first half of the 2030s

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the japanese are not working on a 5th generation fighter but a 6th generation one why?

Japanese participation in the next U.S. fighter program is now conceivable because Tokyo has relaxed its arms-export restrictions, which in the past have largely prevented its industry from working with foreign partners. The way is not entirely open for cooperation, however, since Japan might be reluctant to supply some countries that the U.S. sees as suitable customers

plus the article says

The ministry also wants to push ahead Japanese ECM technology, to preserve national independence in that area that was developed in building a system for the F-15. The ECM work must be part of what the ministry calls an “all-around surveillance and jamming system.” Japan is also looking for “reflection suppression” technology, apparently distinct from stealth shaping and materials. Details are unavailable. Results of this electro-magnetic work are to be assessed in 2019.

Other work flagged for the i3 Fighter might be enticingly dangled under the Pentagon's nose, though. The Technical Research and Development Institute and industry are working on skin sensors, directed-energy weapons and advanced avionics

 

[leibowitz]

Re: SAC stealth striker

+1

I think the PLAAF and 2nd Arty both have sufficient capability to reliably strike at Taiwan targets if such a contingency arises (especially once J-16 and JH-7B start entering service). J-16 and JH-7B along with H-6K will also be capable of hitting more distant targets whether they are american or japanese, but none will be quite guaranteed to hit what needs to be hit.

A long range, supercruising and stealthy striker can bring large loads of munitions into play quickly, at targets that are either heavily defended or in urgent need of destruction.
Like you said, a subsonic strategic bomber isn't in China's requirements or in line with doctrine of fighting local wars under informationized conditions, nor do I think China can reliably build such an aircraft that will be invulnerable to potential opfor defenses (namely US, Japan and maybe India). It will be interesting to see how viable LRS-B and existing B-2s become against China as IADS further modernizes and more AEW&C come into service.

Only speed and stealth will be a reliable defense for bombers and strikers in future, but I don't think the technology is quite there for a heavy strategic bomber to have both stealth and speed (or if it is it will cost cray cray), whereas theater strikers may be able to have both aspects without blowing the bank.


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BTW: does anyone have other shots of this mystery bumpy airframe? I remember there being a few other pictures and screencaps of it, but I can't for the life of me remember which thread I saw it in.

I think China and Russia would be well-advised to team up on the PAK DA project. China would get a stealthier and more fuel-efficient Tu-160. That would give US and Japanese planners real nightmares--88,000kg of precision-guided ordnance showing up at Mach 1.5 from a sea-skimming, stealthy bomber with 6,000 km of operating range?